PPS pool?
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“25552” timestamp=“1376474317”]
[quote]Regardless of whether a block was found, the share was stale or the block is orphaned. Miners are paid for EVERY share they submit.[/quote]For every valid share. PPS pools don’t pay for stales usually.
[/quote]Some do, some dont.
Tbh though, i probably wouldn’t pay stale shares.
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NutNut - Thanks :) for encouraging more miners.
Have we any estimated time of arrival for auto-checkpoints?
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Gets my vote. I went back to mining litecoin for the past month or so because there are a couple of very stable and functional PPS pools that I really like. I don’t like PPLNS, I like having predictable and consistent results from PPS mining.
With a PPS pool for FTC I may return.
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An FTC PPS pool!
[img]http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/264/200/acb.jpg[/img]Or vice versa ;)
Anyway 4-5% fee sounds quite alright.
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Please PM me when/if this goes live. thanks!
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I’ll be running this as a closed pool to begin with where both Svennand and I mine it to ensure that we haven’t cocked up the calculations to badly. Then i will run a closed beta (means i get to play with the invite system ;) ) which you’ll be on.
I do want to stress though that if it all goes tits up i will close it down and only continue with the PPLNS pools so i don’t want a backlash if it never happens or i close it down shortly after opening. :-\
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25813” timestamp=“1376815861”]
I do want to stress though that if it all goes tits up i will close it down and only continue with the PPLNS pools so i don’t want a backlash if it never happens or i close it down shortly after opening. :-\
[/quote]I’m cool w/that. Just happy to see another PPS opportunity come along after Coinotron.
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Take a look at liteguardian.com or hypernova.pw for an idea of what I think makes a pool stand out, not just another mmcFE clone pool but something nicely presented with lots of user functions, stats and multiple servers that can be used for failover, which I think is very important if you want to reassure bigger miners.
In the case of hypernova, the reward scheme they use is CPPSRB which is apparently of a lower risk to the pool operators, maybe this could work better for your pool than traditional PPS?
Also please let me know if you want me to try out your PPS pool when it goes live as I’d be happy to help out.
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[quote name=“smz” post=“25896” timestamp=“1376924359”]
Take a look at liteguardian.com or hypernova.pw for an idea of what I think makes a pool stand out, not just another mmcFE clone pool but something nicely presented with lots of user functions, stats and multiple servers that can be used for failover, which I think is very important if you want to reassure bigger miners.In the case of hypernova, the reward scheme they use is CPPSRB which is apparently of a lower risk to the pool operators, maybe this could work better for your pool than traditional PPS?
Also please let me know if you want me to try out your PPS pool when it goes live as I’d be happy to help out.
[/quote]Its all in the process.
First priority is to get the PPS pool up and running 100%
So far the testing is going well. But theres some quirks here and there.
Rest assure when the pool is up and running i will not go into hibernate mode. Theres alot of ideas bounching around between me and nutnut.But for now the aim is a PPS Pool so people can go to a place and mine safely/without having to bet on luck ;)
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Hey guys, thanks for even thinking of providing this opportunity!
I hope no one takes this as an insult, but I finally feel like some sense of the community aspect of this community is starting to come back to life after the attempted 51% attack on the community {that’s how I take what happened after the UNOCS missed launch}. I guess that seed was planted in my mind from this thread[url=http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=2364.0]http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=2364.0[/url] some time ago. All that negativity and finger pointing nearly shut me down too. But, after lurking and reading/learning from the big guys, I really feel that this community will emerge stronger and tighter as a result.
All that said, I would be very happy to see PPS as an option, and even would offer to help test without reward {if that’s even possible} for a time if that would help you guys set things up.
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We are currently testing with half our hash strenght to check that payouts/disp information and so on are working correctly.
Theres also some adjustment to wallet size etc to have fallback cash for miner to get paid 24/7 disregarding block finds ;)As nutnut said there will be a closed beta run for some users, im sure we are able to fit you on that list if you want.
The reason for beta testing is that if shit hits the fan we are “small” enough group of miners to do failover manually so everyone gets out without a hitch, and gets paid accordinally++
Also for our own sake if something gets messed up it will not cost us to much out of our own wallet if its not working correct=) miners will get paid either way ::)For those wanting an update on how things are going.
*So far we have controlled that blocks are comming in accordingly. (needed to increase wallet size due to confirmation time is loooong)
*Now we’re awaiting a diff change to check that that works seemlessly for value pr share etc.
*Next thing in line is to go through the site checking that all information is correct etc.We’re not far from having something to present to the public, but we are not there just yet ;)
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NutNut, I’ve been mining on your P2Pool since you set it up, wouldn’t mind mining on your PPS pool too with some of my hashes if you’re still looking for Beta testers.
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With PPS pool there are some other problem. Some bad gays with big hashrate will easy empty your pool wallet. Dont forget that cgminer are open source, and someone can easy fix it in one minute so, that miner will never send really big diff shares to the pool. In that case you will pay for shares, say >64 diff, but that real shares which resolves blocks will be filtered at cgminer. I understand that the such attacker in this case had no big profit, but we’re talking about “bad guys”. May be they simply want to close pool in that way.
I know few such peoples, that are real scenario, not just theory.
In May i tryed to make PPS pool, but even with no any orphaned blocks, pool wallet in some days went down for -2000-3000 FTC. So pool gives no any profit for me, just looses. -
[quote name=“vasp” post=“25945” timestamp=“1376975290”]
With PPS pool there are some other problem. Some bad gays with big hashrate will easy empty your pool wallet. Dont forget that cgminer are open source, and someone can easy fix it in one minute so, that miner will never send really big diff shares to the pool. In that case you will pay for shares, say >64 diff, but that real shares which resolves blocks will be filtered at cgminer. I understand that the such attacker in this case had no big profit, but we’re talking about “bad guys”. May be they simply want to close pool in that way.
I know few such peoples, that are real scenario, not just theory.
In May i tryed to make PPS pool, but even with no any orphaned blocks, pool wallet in some days went down for -2000-3000 FTC. So pool gives no any profit for me, just looses.
[/quote]thanks for the tip.
If they find a way to filter packages based on diff size than all pools are exposed, not just pps. Will have a talk with nutnut about this one.
There are bad periods and theres good periods as regarding amount of blocks found. This we have to counter for with having a substantial size of wallet, or at least have a good eye on it to controll that it never runs out :) -
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)
Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25951” timestamp=“1376981283”]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Yes, i understand that they cant use this big diff shares for own use, cause there are pool wallet imprinted in block, but
there are no such goal. They getting paid for every thousands of sent shares, but your actualy will never find any blocks from that miners because this shares which solves blocks simply never be sent to the pool. On other than PPS pools - they just steal money from fair miners, but on PPS pool - pool owner pays for all that :( -
[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25951” timestamp=“1376981283”]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Vasp wants to say those guys with big hash rates may attack your pool by not sending you shares which find blocks. They cannot cash them, but they won’t let you, too. They will send you only regular shares solved and receive PPS payments for them. The attackers lose nearly nothing this way, but the pool becomes bankrupt in the long run.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“25962” timestamp=“1376998543”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=3329.msg25951#msg25951 date=1376981283]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Vasp wants to say those guys with big hash rates may attack your pool by not sending you shares which find blocks. They cannot cash them, but they won’t let you, too. They will send you only regular shares solved and receive PPS payments for them. The attackers lose nearly nothing this way, but the pool becomes bankrupt in the long run.
[/quote]Will look into this and have a talk with nut nut,
Might be we need to implement some security measures to prevent such actions.Different aspects to attack this problem on.
1. have an method that controlls hash/blocks found given certain time, meaning if someone for instance are using 5x longer time finding block given hashrate, rather than other they will be autoban (however this have to be discussed in deepth given that no one is getting banned just for having bad luck…)
2. Have every share counted disregarding diff size (will create higher load on server), to check that there 1/1 on in/out. However this might get bypassed by a modified cgminer which just sends an alternative share when finding high enough diff share…Will brainstorm and discuss this ;)
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[quote name=“vasp” post=“25955” timestamp=“1376989684”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=3329.msg25951#msg25951 date=1376981283]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Yes, i understand that they cant use this big diff shares for own use, cause there are pool wallet imprinted in block, but
there are no such goal. They getting paid for every thousands of sent shares, but your actualy will never find any blocks from that miners because this shares which solves blocks simply never be sent to the pool. On other than PPS pools - they just steal money from fair miners, but on PPS pool - pool owner pays for all that :(
[/quote]Ahh yes - the block withholding attack. Yes, this is a valid attack that will hurt the pool Ops. There’s no gain for the attacker other than perhaps killing a competitor or bragging rights (like any hacker/cracker/script kiddy).
What i’m proposing atm is a closed pool for active forum members (invite only) and of course i’ll be watching for suspicious activity like a hawk. Unfortunately that kind of attack can just seem like bad luck but if someone brings 15MHs to the party and doesnt find a block for a week, it becomes rather suspicious. [note to self: keep an eye on Svennand… He seems shifty!] ;D ;D ;D
Bottom line is, i see it as way to reward loyal members by allowing access to one of the only (if not THE only) pps pools for ftc. It’s a way to attract more loyal miners and assist in stabilising the hash rate a bit more. Yes it’s a risk for me (and Svennand as he’s stumped up 50% of the float) but hey… i believe! ;)
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I’d join your pool. I mine multi strategy now, so some of my GPU will be hashing away on your pool.
