Renting mining rigs
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[quote name=“jti8899” post=“57144” timestamp=“1391568293”]
[quote author=CloudScrypt link=topic=7318.msg56994#msg56994 date=1391515772]
[quote author=Thytos link=topic=7318.msg56993#msg56993 date=1391515400]
[quote author=scruffters link=topic=7318.msg56984#msg56984 date=1391510905]
I expect scrypt cloud hashing services will become more important in the future. It happened (to an extent) with BTC.As a service, these types of arrangement only further validates crypto as an industry. I think that is quite important, actually.
I can’t see average folks building their own rigs. But rental could do very well in the long term…
[/quote]I agree with those same 3 points.
[/quote]+1, I see it as a very viable introduction for some, and alternative for others - of course there will always be the hardcore builders! ;D
[/quote]I can see various reason someone would want to lease their rigs to others, the obvious being profit short term.
I can also see many reasons why others would want to lease a rig (like a car, or furniture and appliances) the obvious being lower responsibility for the equipment, although at a higher cost. Just because a person could take a bus for cheaper then leasing a car, does not mean leasing a car is not a viable alternative for them. Maybe they want to learn about mining and receive coins with no fiat paper trail to them, without the cost and headaches of buying and building a mining rig. I have built them and it is no task for the average, never built anything kind of person. Maybe a better example would be leasing a washer and dryer vs going to the laundromat?
With all that said, wouldn’t there be a way to let rig owners place their rigs up as an offer, while people who want to lease a rig placing their intent up as an ask, on a decentralized blockchain type transaction “open transactions” style and they could find one another and interact peer to peer with no third “trusted Party” in the middle? isn’t this where we are all going anyway?
This way people who enjoy building and maintaining mining rigs could build decentralized autonomous companies and do what they love. Others could buy the coins produced and do what they love. The networks would gain in diversified mining pools. Only losers I see here are the banks . . . boo hoo!
Just a thought,
~//~+1 CloudScrypt
[/quote]I really have to disagree with you on that… You have to pay with bitcoins anyway, so its cheaper and faster to just buy some coin outright…
And if your going to learn about mining, paying for someone else to do it for you is not a good start, maybe using an old computer or something would be more practical for learning…
Maybe it might be more worth while when scrypt Asic’s are more widely available.
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[quote name=“Joe90” post=“57174” timestamp=“1391577633”]
[quote author=jti8899 link=topic=7318.msg57144#msg57144 date=1391568293]
[quote author=CloudScrypt link=topic=7318.msg56994#msg56994 date=1391515772]
[quote author=Thytos link=topic=7318.msg56993#msg56993 date=1391515400]
[quote author=scruffters link=topic=7318.msg56984#msg56984 date=1391510905]
I expect scrypt cloud hashing services will become more important in the future. It happened (to an extent) with BTC.As a service, these types of arrangement only further validates crypto as an industry. I think that is quite important, actually.
I can’t see average folks building their own rigs. But rental could do very well in the long term…
[/quote]I agree with those same 3 points.
[/quote]+1, I see it as a very viable introduction for some, and alternative for others - of course there will always be the hardcore builders! ;D
[/quote]I can see various reason someone would want to lease their rigs to others, the obvious being profit short term.
I can also see many reasons why others would want to lease a rig (like a car, or furniture and appliances) the obvious being lower responsibility for the equipment, although at a higher cost. Just because a person could take a bus for cheaper then leasing a car, does not mean leasing a car is not a viable alternative for them. Maybe they want to learn about mining and receive coins with no fiat paper trail to them, without the cost and headaches of buying and building a mining rig. I have built them and it is no task for the average, never built anything kind of person. Maybe a better example would be leasing a washer and dryer vs going to the laundromat?
With all that said, wouldn’t there be a way to let rig owners place their rigs up as an offer, while people who want to lease a rig placing their intent up as an ask, on a decentralized blockchain type transaction “open transactions” style and they could find one another and interact peer to peer with no third “trusted Party” in the middle? isn’t this where we are all going anyway?
This way people who enjoy building and maintaining mining rigs could build decentralized autonomous companies and do what they love. Others could buy the coins produced and do what they love. The networks would gain in diversified mining pools. Only losers I see here are the banks . . . boo hoo!
Just a thought,
~//~+1 CloudScrypt
[/quote]I really have to disagree with you on that… You have to pay with bitcoins anyway, so its cheaper and faster to just buy some coin outright…
And if your going to learn about mining, paying for someone else to do it for you is not a good start, maybe using an old computer or something would be more practical for learning…
Maybe it might be more worth while when scrypt Asic’s are more widely available.
[/quote]This is all from your personal perspective though (and I respect that) but, I spent over 1,000USD to get a mining rig up, not counting time in research, assembly and ongoing configuration and I like building things. Someone else, and I know some of these people, would be willing to pay more per coin, to mine over buy, but see leasing a rig short term as a better way to get their feet wet. They are all over the US for USD through PayPal as well so it isn’t just BTC contracts.
There are many different types of people. I personally would be of the same opinion as you and would just buy them before I leased someone’s miner, but then there is the question of “where do I buy them?” for some people who wanted to buy, and asked that question the easiest answer they found was to lease mining rig time.
Regardless how any of us believe people should do things, there is a hugh open opportunity to fill the nitch created by the people with rigs wanting to lease them out for BTC or USD or EUR and the people without wanting to rent them to gain crypto. I personally can’t believe the rent to own places stay in business. I see their ads and think “who would rent that for that much? hell just buy it”, yet their trucks are all over town delivering stuff.
peace
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Although I have an own mining rig at home, I am still fan of idea to rent mining rigs online. I checked out leaserig.net but the prices there are ridiculous high. I pay more then I get.
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You should try www.betarigs.com . I have been looking at both sites and the prices are usually lower here and the renting process is more straightforward.
As for the discussion above… i agree when you say that we can’t expect everyone to build a mining rig, thats not feasible. I also think its more logical for the average human who is getting acquainted with crypto and wants to try it out, to choose renting over buying mining rigs.
And for the prices, those will always be higher than what you can make short term with the same hashpower. That obvious: whoever is renting is looking for short term profit and will only rent for a price higher than what they can do themselves.
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I haven’t found any rig on betarigs.com worth to rent. Well at least for mining Litecoins or Feathercoins.
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If you can afford to buy a car why would you rent it?
The only reason is because you expect that you will no longer need or want said car once your done using it…
If you really believe in a particular coin, renting only shows you lack of faith in it.
Granted, regardless if your renting or owning a rig, one could easily jump ship and change coin to mine, but my point still stands. By buying the hardware, your voting with your fiat that you don’t wish to return back to said government issued currency.
I still can not understand why you would want to rent a rig. It shows lack of trust and faith.
I’ve said it once, I’m now saying it twice.
Buy the printer, don’t rent it.
Your just giving someone who has more trust in the fundamental philosophy of been in control of your own money, more of your own money…
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[quote name=“Calem” post=“57428” timestamp=“1391672449”]
If you can afford to buy a car why would you rent it?The only reason is because you expect that you will no longer need or want said car once your done using it…
If you really believe in a particular coin, renting only shows you lack of faith in it.
Granted, regardless if your renting or owning a rig, one could easily jump ship and change coin to mine, but my point still stands. By buying the hardware, your voting with your fiat that you don’t wish to return back to said government issued currency.
I still can not understand why you would want to rent a rig. It shows lack of trust and faith.
I’ve said it once, I’m now saying it twice.
Buy the printer, don’t rent it.
Your just giving someone who has more trust in the fundamental philosophy of been in control of your own money, more of your own money…
[/quote]Who is more committed to the crypto in question, the guy who builds a rig and leases it to dump the coins it produces at a profit in fiat, or the guy who rents his rig and holds and uses those coins in place of fiat?
I own a car, but rent one anytime I leave town on vacation so someone else deals with any breakdown issues! Just one reason someone might rent when they can buy.
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[quote name=“jti8899” post=“57437” timestamp=“1391676656”]
Who is more committed to the crypto in question, the guy who builds a rig and leases it to dump the coins it produces at a profit in fiat, or the guy who rents his rig and holds and uses those coins in place of fiat?
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[/quote]The guy who rents the other guys rig of course. Dumping coins for fiat is obviously a show of lack of faith.
This doesn’t take into account the guy who builds his own rig and mines with it himself.
The point I’m trying to make, is investing in the hardware yourself shows more loyalty than taking less risk by allowing someone else to be left holding useless hardware.
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Another argument I have against cloud mining, is that the owner of the cloud could pick a particular pool. This would give the cloud owner the ability to smash a chosen coin by colluding with other cloud owners.
This would push up the difficulty by simply mining the cheapest coin then bailing onto the next pool leaving all the loyal miners holding the high difficulty.
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[quote name=“Calem” post=“57438” timestamp=“1391676867”]
[quote author=jti8899 link=topic=7318.msg57437#msg57437 date=1391676656]
Who is more committed to the crypto in question, the guy who builds a rig and leases it to dump the coins it produces at a profit in fiat, or the guy who rents his rig and holds and uses those coins in place of fiat?
~//~
[/quote]The guy who rents the other guys rig of course. Dumping coins for fiat is obviously a show of lack of faith.
This doesn’t take into account the guy who builds his own rig and mines with it himself.
The point I’m trying to make, is investing in the hardware yourself shows more loyalty than taking less risk by allowing someone else to be left holding useless hardware.
[/quote]Okay then who’s more committed, the guy who builds a rig for 1,000USD and mines 25-30FTC a day, or the guy who buys 100USD worth of FTC and continues to add to his positions every week with another 25USD?
I think trying to make the point that one form of investing in any collective experiment is more committed then any other form, is a fools game. They are all important, even the miner who sells his FTC is adding to the mining pool, and is therefore helping the collective experiment. To me they are all equally important and should all be encouraged and appreciated.
peace
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[quote name=“jti8899” post=“57440” timestamp=“1391677532”]
To me they are all equally important and should all be encouraged and appreciated.
[/quote]I agree with you entirely with the exception of cloud mining.
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[quote]If you can afford to buy a car why would you rent it?[/quote]
Just like car rental I don’t see why there shouldn’t be tertiary service providers in the crypto scene?
The model is already pretty much validated for the major coins.
[quote]I still can not understand why you would want to rent a rig. It shows lack of trust and faith.
I’ve said it once, I’m now saying it twice.
Buy the printer, don’t rent it. [/quote]
ha, let me ask a question though… is renting is better than merely buying? I mean a rented rig still does its part to maintain the block chain ;)
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[quote name=“scruffters” post=“57442” timestamp=“1391677865”]
[quote]If you can afford to buy a car why would you rent it?[/quote]Just like car rental I don’t see why there shouldn’t be tertiary service providers in the crypto scene?
The model is already pretty much validated for the major coins.
…
ha, let me ask a question though… is renting is better than merely buying? I mean a rented rig still does its part to maintain the block chain ;)
[/quote]Buying = Mining
Buying and or Mining is > Renting
By renting, you are giving profit to someone who clearly couldn’t care less about the continuity of crypto’s.
I think, whoever runs a cloud service, either a. just wants to make fiat, or b. see’s more potential in having their customers share the risk of loss of fiat.
Whether it’s a. or b. the person running the service has no faith in the long term survival of crypto currencies.
Here’s another analogy.
Look at it like renting pick axes for gold mining. If they really saw a long term potential for gold, they would be more interested in investing in hardware to mine for them self’s.
A business does not exist unless there is a profit to be made by been the middle man.
If you truly believe, you don’t need or want a middle man dipping into your share.
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[quote name=“Calem” post=“57445” timestamp=“1391678698”]
Look at it like renting pick axes for gold mining. If they really saw a long term potential for gold, they would be more interested in investing in hardware to mine for them self’s.
A business does not exist unless there is a profit to be made by been the middle man.
If you truly believe, you don’t need or want a middle man dipping into your share.
[/quote]A man named Levi saw people all running like mad to California to mine for gold. He thought before he acted and he decided to provide quality pants to the miners instead of mining with them. We still buy his jeans here decades latter. He added value to the collective.
It sounds like, because you have invested in mining gear, your looking for community validation to the story you told yourself justifying that it was a wise move. Maybe it wasn’t, maybe you’ll lose money and the guy who chose a different path and leased a rig will lose less? I hope not, because I built a couple rigs and mine now too, but I don’t tell myself I am more committed or of more worth then the person who buys a single FTC and sits on it, or the person who looks at the whole thing and says it’s a fools game and refuses to be pulled in and misses the greatest opportunity of his lifetime. . . or not? It’s all a big collective experiment try to zoom out and set aside your personal choice, just look at the bigger picture. They are all valuable, even the people who choose not to get involved but watch from a distance.
peace,
~//~ -
And now his jeans are mass manufactured creating a monopoly where “Levi” is able to undercut the little guy pushing him out of the market all together.
On a related note though…
I’ve bought the bulk of my ftc. I’ve mined the remaining ~20%.
I’ve spent close to 20% of all of what I currently hold.
I could have bought double that and have even more if I didn’t spend any of my ftc.
I hold ~2900ftc and I couldn’t care less about ftc reaching $1usd.
Support the network how ever you see fit.
You’re still missing my main point though.
Renting a rig is pointless and just gives someone else crypto’s which could legitimately be your own. If you can’t mine, buy them. You will make more anyways. I mine for fun. For the mental and logistical challenge. Too many people see crypto’s as a get rich quick scheme and renting rigs is evidence of that.
All the money with none of commitment.
[i]edit2[/i]
btw, [u]I’m done here.[/u] Let’s agree to disagree. Sorry for interrupting your thread.
Peace to you as well fellow Feathercoiner.
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[quote name=“Calem” post=“57453” timestamp=“1391681375”]
And now his jeans are mass manufactured creating a monopoly where “Levi” is able to undercut the little guy pushing him out of the market all together.
[/quote]And if FTC became as big as Levi’s, would you feel the same about them?
peace
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I think it is great to see people getting really involved with that stuff. But I think in case of crypto currency it is also totally legit just wanting to earn money with it.
Personally - I really love the Feathercoin-Community. It is the best! One reason I am mining feathercoins. But to be honest, I am not just doing it to support Feathercoin, but also to earn some money with it one day. So I am supporting Feathercoins to a certain grade and if I have to pay lot more then I get, I would stop mining.
… what brings me back to the topic - Renting rigs.
Both mentioned renting rigs services are in my opinion useless. You pay in most cases > 50% more than you mine. That’s why I am pretty surprised that there are actual people renting the rigs. -
The only way to secure Feathercoin or Bitcoin in the long run is to ditribute hash power, such that one person or pool cannot join together to manipulate the Block chain difficulty.
I have suggested this needs to be by promoting each merchant to have a small (ASIC) miner. They know they are the bank, and will be the main users of the coins.
The trouble with Cloud mining it is open to more than one abuse and is anti distributed network(ie centralising).
That’s apart from the fact they are grooming scammers by tempting them with an easy Con.
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[quote name=“wrapper” post=“57484” timestamp=“1391688200”]
That’s apart from the fact they are grooming scammers by tempting them with an easy Con.
[/quote]Could you clarify that? Not sure I understand…
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Sorry guys but there’s a new thread that has been started regarding Cloud Hashing.
Let’s pick up the conversation there. Shall we shift over and start afresh?
No point having 2 threads discussing the same thing.
I’ve not done this before so please forgive me if I’m stepping out of line but I’m locking this thread.
