PPS pool?
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NutNut, I’ve been mining on your P2Pool since you set it up, wouldn’t mind mining on your PPS pool too with some of my hashes if you’re still looking for Beta testers.
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With PPS pool there are some other problem. Some bad gays with big hashrate will easy empty your pool wallet. Dont forget that cgminer are open source, and someone can easy fix it in one minute so, that miner will never send really big diff shares to the pool. In that case you will pay for shares, say >64 diff, but that real shares which resolves blocks will be filtered at cgminer. I understand that the such attacker in this case had no big profit, but we’re talking about “bad guys”. May be they simply want to close pool in that way.
I know few such peoples, that are real scenario, not just theory.
In May i tryed to make PPS pool, but even with no any orphaned blocks, pool wallet in some days went down for -2000-3000 FTC. So pool gives no any profit for me, just looses. -
[quote name=“vasp” post=“25945” timestamp=“1376975290”]
With PPS pool there are some other problem. Some bad gays with big hashrate will easy empty your pool wallet. Dont forget that cgminer are open source, and someone can easy fix it in one minute so, that miner will never send really big diff shares to the pool. In that case you will pay for shares, say >64 diff, but that real shares which resolves blocks will be filtered at cgminer. I understand that the such attacker in this case had no big profit, but we’re talking about “bad guys”. May be they simply want to close pool in that way.
I know few such peoples, that are real scenario, not just theory.
In May i tryed to make PPS pool, but even with no any orphaned blocks, pool wallet in some days went down for -2000-3000 FTC. So pool gives no any profit for me, just looses.
[/quote]thanks for the tip.
If they find a way to filter packages based on diff size than all pools are exposed, not just pps. Will have a talk with nutnut about this one.
There are bad periods and theres good periods as regarding amount of blocks found. This we have to counter for with having a substantial size of wallet, or at least have a good eye on it to controll that it never runs out :) -
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)
Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25951” timestamp=“1376981283”]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Yes, i understand that they cant use this big diff shares for own use, cause there are pool wallet imprinted in block, but
there are no such goal. They getting paid for every thousands of sent shares, but your actualy will never find any blocks from that miners because this shares which solves blocks simply never be sent to the pool. On other than PPS pools - they just steal money from fair miners, but on PPS pool - pool owner pays for all that :( -
[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25951” timestamp=“1376981283”]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Vasp wants to say those guys with big hash rates may attack your pool by not sending you shares which find blocks. They cannot cash them, but they won’t let you, too. They will send you only regular shares solved and receive PPS payments for them. The attackers lose nearly nothing this way, but the pool becomes bankrupt in the long run.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“25962” timestamp=“1376998543”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=3329.msg25951#msg25951 date=1376981283]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Vasp wants to say those guys with big hash rates may attack your pool by not sending you shares which find blocks. They cannot cash them, but they won’t let you, too. They will send you only regular shares solved and receive PPS payments for them. The attackers lose nearly nothing this way, but the pool becomes bankrupt in the long run.
[/quote]Will look into this and have a talk with nut nut,
Might be we need to implement some security measures to prevent such actions.Different aspects to attack this problem on.
1. have an method that controlls hash/blocks found given certain time, meaning if someone for instance are using 5x longer time finding block given hashrate, rather than other they will be autoban (however this have to be discussed in deepth given that no one is getting banned just for having bad luck…)
2. Have every share counted disregarding diff size (will create higher load on server), to check that there 1/1 on in/out. However this might get bypassed by a modified cgminer which just sends an alternative share when finding high enough diff share…Will brainstorm and discuss this ;)
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[quote name=“vasp” post=“25955” timestamp=“1376989684”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=3329.msg25951#msg25951 date=1376981283]
Don’t have time to explain in full right now but if someone “filtered” the block out at cgminer level and directed to a different wallet, it would no longer be a valid block. ;)Also, that’s no different from any other pool… get a share of everyone elses work but keep your own blocks.
All that said and done, have you any hard evidence of it happening? There are some clever guys out there… :-\
[/quote]Yes, i understand that they cant use this big diff shares for own use, cause there are pool wallet imprinted in block, but
there are no such goal. They getting paid for every thousands of sent shares, but your actualy will never find any blocks from that miners because this shares which solves blocks simply never be sent to the pool. On other than PPS pools - they just steal money from fair miners, but on PPS pool - pool owner pays for all that :(
[/quote]Ahh yes - the block withholding attack. Yes, this is a valid attack that will hurt the pool Ops. There’s no gain for the attacker other than perhaps killing a competitor or bragging rights (like any hacker/cracker/script kiddy).
What i’m proposing atm is a closed pool for active forum members (invite only) and of course i’ll be watching for suspicious activity like a hawk. Unfortunately that kind of attack can just seem like bad luck but if someone brings 15MHs to the party and doesnt find a block for a week, it becomes rather suspicious. [note to self: keep an eye on Svennand… He seems shifty!] ;D ;D ;D
Bottom line is, i see it as way to reward loyal members by allowing access to one of the only (if not THE only) pps pools for ftc. It’s a way to attract more loyal miners and assist in stabilising the hash rate a bit more. Yes it’s a risk for me (and Svennand as he’s stumped up 50% of the float) but hey… i believe! ;)
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I’d join your pool. I mine multi strategy now, so some of my GPU will be hashing away on your pool.
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[quote name=“corather” post=“26163” timestamp=“1377320939”]
I’d join your pool. I mine multi strategy now, so some of my GPU will be hashing away on your pool.
[/quote]just send nutnut a pm (pps pool beta thread for info) :)
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Where is the pps pool beta thread? Or did the idea not work out?
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[quote name=“PolybiusSquare” post=“56759” timestamp=“1391400091”]
Where is the pps pool beta thread? Or did the idea not work out?
[/quote]Was running for quite a while open for everyone.
But in the end it just lost to much money.
Not to mention the stress during the feathercoin value rampup period where everyone wanted to mine PPS, we were paying out 10000FTC pr day, so if we got an unlucky streak…
Alot of sleepless nights with iPhone in hand… -
Totally understand, thanks.
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My pool run with PROP. It is pool.ftc-c.com, everything is normal. It is 0% fee.
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[quote name=“lizhi” post=“57038” timestamp=“1391533995”]
My pool run with PROP. It is pool.ftc-c.com, everything is normal. It is 0% fee.
[/quote]Not sure how to respond to that one, PROP is nothing like PPS.
And yes nut2pools still run an FTC pool with Prop. -
Would take a lot to pull me away from D2…
I just seem to get paid that little bit more with D2, I’ve tried a few…
But I’m loyal and emotional so don’t take my opinion as anything ;)
