Diff trap... Again.
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In times like these everyone not using coinchoose, coinwarz, etc. to mine the most profitable coin, the “coin of the hour” would be stupid.
Bad for Feathercoin. And bad for all other non-Junk Coins in general.
Because loyalty can not be implemented in the algorithm as such, all we can do is to create other incentives for miners to mine FTC: Create and support a prolonged uptrend in the exchange rate.
People will get tired jumping from one coin to the next. Effectively loosing money because the pools are PPLNS, because they can’t sell the junk coins fast enough, etc.
Stability will prevail. And stability is what we, the FTC community, have to provide.
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Hello!
Im a newbie here so feel free to ignore me, but cant difficulty swings be minimized with more frequent small % based adjusts?
From what ive seen most ppl change coins based on being the most profitable, by making the adjusts small there should not be much immediate variance between “everyone mining” and “just regulars”, even if regulars where just half of the miners…
I mean, the instant FTC becomes the top coin everyone will come mine it, next cycle will adjust just 5%, enough to lower it in the ranking to 2nd or 3rd place, and then miners will leave, etc.
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[quote name=“juanitierno” post=“25682” timestamp=“1376591223”]
Hello!Im a newbie here so feel free to ignore me, but cant difficulty swings be minimized with more frequent small % based adjusts?
[/quote]It’s being discussed. Something can be improved definitely.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“25694” timestamp=“1376610754”]
[quote author=juanitierno link=topic=3327.msg25682#msg25682 date=1376591223]
Hello!Im a newbie here so feel free to ignore me, but cant difficulty swings be minimized with more frequent small % based adjusts?
[/quote]It’s being discussed. Something can be improved definitely.
[/quote]This will not solve our problem. As long as coinchoose, coinwarz & others exit and are heavily used, users will always mine the most profitable coin. No matter if difficulty is adjusted every 500, 50 or 5 blocks.
As a short term solution one alt coin might implement shorter difficulty adjustment times - and then all the other scrypt coins might follow one by one, because it seems to be the holy grail. But in the end this only leads to more unification: Different coins become more and more the same (feature like).
Lets Feathercoin again stand out. Lets make it [b]the [/b]scrypt coin. Lets make it [b]the [/b]Alt coin.
I think Bushstars difficulty adjustment algorithm has proven to work. Even in rough times (high difficulty, low network) we always manage to keep the network over 1500 MH/s. That shows that there’s some loyalty already.
We have to improve that loyalty. But no piece of software, no algorithm can do that for us.
We have to actively promote the coin. Ensure a stable exchange rate, or even [i]generate[/i] a persistent uptrend.
In doing this we get the attention of others: “Wow, FTC is not just another 4.5 MH/s network coin with difficulty in the 0.x region (getting lower every day to attract miners)”.
[b]Feathercoin is here to stay![/b]
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[quote name=“Radacoin” post=“25705” timestamp=“1376634330”]
[quote author=ghostlander link=topic=3327.msg25694#msg25694 date=1376610754]
[quote author=juanitierno link=topic=3327.msg25682#msg25682 date=1376591223]
Hello!Im a newbie here so feel free to ignore me, but cant difficulty swings be minimized with more frequent small % based adjusts?
[/quote]It’s being discussed. Something can be improved definitely.
[/quote]This will not solve our problem. As long as coinchoose, coinwarz & others exit and are heavily used, users will always mine the most profitable coin. No matter if difficulty is adjusted every 500, 50 or 5 blocks.
As a short term solution one alt coin might implement shorter difficulty adjustment times - and then all the other scrypt coins might follow one by one, because it seems to be the holy grail. But in the end this only leads to more unification: Different coins become more and more the same (feature like).
Lets Feathercoin again stand out. Lets make it [b]the [/b]scrypt coin. Lets make it [b]the [/b]Alt coin.
I think Bushstars difficulty adjustment algorithm has proven to work. Even in rough times (high difficulty, low network) we always manage to keep the network over 1500 MH/s. That shows that there’s some loyalty already.
We have to improve that loyalty. But no piece of software, no algorithm can do that for us.
We have to actively promote the coin. Ensure a stable exchange rate, or even [i]generate[/i] a persistent uptrend.
In doing this we get the attention of others: “Wow, FTC is not just another 4.5 MH/s network coin with difficulty in the 0.x region (getting lower every day to attract miners)”.
[b]Feathercoin is here to stay![/b]
[/quote]Sorry radacoin, I disagree.
Creating small more frequent changes would stop us going from spot one to spot 10+ on coinchoose. Therefor the mad influx followed by exodus would be reduced and thy loyal following would continue.
Example…
Right now, we are 14th on coinchoose and we have 4ghs approx. weve been stuck here for a long while mining only a handful of coins. the confirms are slow and were missing our blocktimes. once the diff drops in 2 hours, we’ll be much higher (say 3rd for sake of argument) and all the non loyal miners will jump on. Our hashrate will shoot up to 10+ghs and in 8 hours we’ll be back at a high diff and 14th on coinchoose again. All the un loyal miners sod off and muggins here is left to mine it back down. Wash, rinse, repeat.
The only time we occasionally beat it is if we have a pump at the same time. Then it gets worse as the diff may go up twice.
I think it’s safe to say I’m one of the most loyal miners here. I’ve been here since the big trap in may that caused a fork, and by and large it was my thread that dragged a few other big hashers over. And our rigs that allowed us to get to the hard fork block.
Even I am now getting fed up of mining the least profitable coin so others can drop by for a quick win and I’m considering taking on the attitude of if you can’t beat em, join em.
Smaller more frequent changes mean would only fluctuate by a couple of positions on coinchoose rather than 10 or 15 and therefor encourage more miners to stick with us.
MOST MINERS ARE NOT LOYAL. They want to make money, as do most people involved in crypto.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25706” timestamp=“1376640837”]
Creating small more frequent changes would stop us going from spot one to spot 10+ on coinchoose.
[/quote]Bitcoin network has 400.000 GH/s.
Terracoin, even when profitability is 3x that of Bitcoin on coinchoose & friends, never goes over 3.000 GH/s.
How come? If coinchoose is the be-all and end-all?We have the become the Bitcoin in the Scrypt world. Otherwise we are only tossed about by the waves of difficulty. Like all the other alt coins.
Tweaking the difficulty adjustment algorithm does not change this.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25706” timestamp=“1376640837”]
[quote author=Radacoin link=topic=3327.msg25705#msg25705 date=1376634330]
[quote author=ghostlander link=topic=3327.msg25694#msg25694 date=1376610754]
[quote author=juanitierno link=topic=3327.msg25682#msg25682 date=1376591223]
Hello!Im a newbie here so feel free to ignore me, but cant difficulty swings be minimized with more frequent small % based adjusts?
[/quote]It’s being discussed. Something can be improved definitely.
[/quote]This will not solve our problem. As long as coinchoose, coinwarz & others exit and are heavily used, users will always mine the most profitable coin. No matter if difficulty is adjusted every 500, 50 or 5 blocks.
As a short term solution one alt coin might implement shorter difficulty adjustment times - and then all the other scrypt coins might follow one by one, because it seems to be the holy grail. But in the end this only leads to more unification: Different coins become more and more the same (feature like).
Lets Feathercoin again stand out. Lets make it [b]the [/b]scrypt coin. Lets make it [b]the [/b]Alt coin.
I think Bushstars difficulty adjustment algorithm has proven to work. Even in rough times (high difficulty, low network) we always manage to keep the network over 1500 MH/s. That shows that there’s some loyalty already.
We have to improve that loyalty. But no piece of software, no algorithm can do that for us.
We have to actively promote the coin. Ensure a stable exchange rate, or even [i]generate[/i] a persistent uptrend.
In doing this we get the attention of others: “Wow, FTC is not just another 4.5 MH/s network coin with difficulty in the 0.x region (getting lower every day to attract miners)”.
[b]Feathercoin is here to stay![/b]
[/quote]Sorry radacoin, I disagree.
Creating small more frequent changes would stop us going from spot one to spot 10+ on coinchoose. Therefor the mad influx followed by exodus would be reduced and thy loyal following would continue.
Example…
Right now, we are 14th on coinchoose and we have 4ghs approx. weve been stuck here for a long while mining only a handful of coins. the confirms are slow and were missing our blocktimes. once the diff drops in 2 hours, we’ll be much higher (say 3rd for sake of argument) and all the non loyal miners will jump on. Our hashrate will shoot up to 10+ghs and in 8 hours we’ll be back at a high diff and 14th on coinchoose again. All the un loyal miners sod off and muggins here is left to mine it back down. Wash, rinse, repeat.
The only time we occasionally beat it is if we have a pump at the same time. Then it gets worse as the diff may go up twice.
I think it’s safe to say I’m one of the most loyal miners here. I’ve been here since the big trap in may that caused a fork, and by and large it was my thread that dragged a few other big hashers over. And our rigs that allowed us to get to the hard fork block.
Even I am now getting fed up of mining the least profitable coin so others can drop by for a quick win and I’m considering taking on the attitude of if you can’t beat em, join em.
Smaller more frequent changes mean would only fluctuate by a couple of positions on coinchoose rather than 10 or 15 and therefor encourage more miners to stick with us.
MOST MINERS ARE NOT LOYAL. They want to make money, as do most people involved in crypto.
[/quote]Hey man,
I’d like to try and understand this a bit better. What’s has marginal difference in profit been over the last few day between FTC and the most profitable coin? What’s your Opportunity cost?
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[quote name=“Radacoin” post=“25705” timestamp=“1376634330”]
[quote author=ghostlander link=topic=3327.msg25694#msg25694 date=1376610754]
[quote author=juanitierno link=topic=3327.msg25682#msg25682 date=1376591223]
Hello!Im a newbie here so feel free to ignore me, but cant difficulty swings be minimized with more frequent small % based adjusts?
[/quote]It’s being discussed. Something can be improved definitely.
[/quote]This will not solve our problem. As long as coinchoose, coinwarz & others exit and are heavily used, users will always mine the most profitable coin. No matter if difficulty is adjusted every 500, 50 or 5 blocks.
[/quote]It matters actually. 1.41 difficulty limiter is good at dealing with dire consequences of very high hash rate variances including attacks. However, it doesn’t really solve the problem. Our network hash rate varies between 2GH/s and 10GH/s or so currently. It means we have about 2GH/s of loyal miners and 8GH/s of coin hoppers. When the difficulty is high, loyal miners support the network and receive inferior rewards. When it’s low, coin hoppers drive in and reap most of superior rewards. Loyal miners get upset and some of them may even consider to become coin hoppers. In addition, our actual block target is far from default 2.5 minutes: it’s either much faster or much slower which hurts transaction processing. That’s not good and has to be changed.
If the difficulty is adjusted often such as every 30 minutes, it solves the problem of coin hoppers. For example, we may experience currently our difficulty to jump from 170 to 240 and back to 170. If we retarget every 30 minutes, the difficulty may hit about 200 only and recover in a matter of hours. Coin hoppers will realise soon that it’s pointless to mine FTC for a few hours as most pools are PPLNS. Some of them may become full time miners, some will go elsewhere. No more problem.
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[quote name=“chrisj” post=“25708” timestamp=“1376644700”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=3327.msg25706#msg25706 date=1376640837]
[quote author=Radacoin link=topic=3327.msg25705#msg25705 date=1376634330]
[quote author=ghostlander link=topic=3327.msg25694#msg25694 date=1376610754]
[quote author=juanitierno link=topic=3327.msg25682#msg25682 date=1376591223]
Hello!Im a newbie here so feel free to ignore me, but cant difficulty swings be minimized with more frequent small % based adjusts?
[/quote]It’s being discussed. Something can be improved definitely.
[/quote]This will not solve our problem. As long as coinchoose, coinwarz & others exit and are heavily used, users will always mine the most profitable coin. No matter if difficulty is adjusted every 500, 50 or 5 blocks.
As a short term solution one alt coin might implement shorter difficulty adjustment times - and then all the other scrypt coins might follow one by one, because it seems to be the holy grail. But in the end this only leads to more unification: Different coins become more and more the same (feature like).
Lets Feathercoin again stand out. Lets make it [b]the [/b]scrypt coin. Lets make it [b]the [/b]Alt coin.
I think Bushstars difficulty adjustment algorithm has proven to work. Even in rough times (high difficulty, low network) we always manage to keep the network over 1500 MH/s. That shows that there’s some loyalty already.
We have to improve that loyalty. But no piece of software, no algorithm can do that for us.
We have to actively promote the coin. Ensure a stable exchange rate, or even [i]generate[/i] a persistent uptrend.
In doing this we get the attention of others: “Wow, FTC is not just another 4.5 MH/s network coin with difficulty in the 0.x region (getting lower every day to attract miners)”.
[b]Feathercoin is here to stay![/b]
[/quote]Sorry radacoin, I disagree.
Creating small more frequent changes would stop us going from spot one to spot 10+ on coinchoose. Therefor the mad influx followed by exodus would be reduced and thy loyal following would continue.
Example…
Right now, we are 14th on coinchoose and we have 4ghs approx. weve been stuck here for a long while mining only a handful of coins. the confirms are slow and were missing our blocktimes. once the diff drops in 2 hours, we’ll be much higher (say 3rd for sake of argument) and all the non loyal miners will jump on. Our hashrate will shoot up to 10+ghs and in 8 hours we’ll be back at a high diff and 14th on coinchoose again. All the un loyal miners sod off and muggins here is left to mine it back down. Wash, rinse, repeat.
The only time we occasionally beat it is if we have a pump at the same time. Then it gets worse as the diff may go up twice.
I think it’s safe to say I’m one of the most loyal miners here. I’ve been here since the big trap in may that caused a fork, and by and large it was my thread that dragged a few other big hashers over. And our rigs that allowed us to get to the hard fork block.
Even I am now getting fed up of mining the least profitable coin so others can drop by for a quick win and I’m considering taking on the attitude of if you can’t beat em, join em.
Smaller more frequent changes mean would only fluctuate by a couple of positions on coinchoose rather than 10 or 15 and therefor encourage more miners to stick with us.
MOST MINERS ARE NOT LOYAL. They want to make money, as do most people involved in crypto.
[/quote]Hey man,
I’d like to try and understand this a bit better. What’s has marginal difference in profit been over the last few day between FTC and the most profitable coin? What’s your Opportunity cost?
[/quote]
It’s not about the most profitable coin, more about the coins per day.
At diff 144 (which is when they all flock back) i get 120ftc per day more than when the diff spikes like now. When the diff hit 241 and mined through it i was down 180 coins per day. The hashrate dropped massively and we were stuck there for flippin ages and we loyal followers have to mine it off. i personally lost about 400ftc in those couple of days.
The more frequent and smaller diff changes simply stops the HUGE swings in difficulty and WILL encourage miners to stick around. If the diff only moves a few points each time it doesn’t sting so much.
In short It WILL create a more stable hashrate, therefor a more stable fleet of miners, therefor a following of die hard feathercoiners and therefor speedy and reliable blocks/confirms and therefor platform to build the empire upon. It’s all useless if no-one can move the coin due to the long transaction time. Miners make that happen and if they get fed up, it all goes to brown stuff.
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[quote name=“Radacoin” post=“25678” timestamp=“1376590113”]
In times like these everyone not using coinchoose, coinwarz, etc. to mine the most profitable coin, the “coin of the hour” would be stupid.Bad for Feathercoin. And bad for all other non-Junk Coins in general.
Because loyalty can not be implemented in the algorithm as such, all we can do is to create other incentives for miners to mine FTC: Create and support a prolonged uptrend in the exchange rate.
People will get tired jumping from one coin to the next. Effectively loosing money because the pools are PPLNS, because they can’t sell the junk coins fast enough, etc.
Stability will prevail. And stability is what we, the FTC community, have to provide.
[/quote]I am reading through all these comments very carefully and wanted to say I really like this comment about loyalty. I will stick a grand in to mining FTC, I don’t care if it loses money because I believe in the project long term.
Will continue reading.
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[quote name=“Radacoin” post=“25705” timestamp=“1376634330”]
We have to improve that loyalty. But no piece of software, no algorithm can do that for us.
[/quote]RIGHT. We can’t keep expecting technology to fix all our problems.
I am listening to [b]Radacoin[/b]. Of course technology can help to automate away some of the more repetitive tasks and indeed it can help us build the Handicap Principle (hard rules that put in place ahead of time because we know ourselves too well) But if we really want to move out the status quo we are also going to need a social intelligence, we are going to need to inspire people.
I am doing as much as I can and am always interested to hear from people either publicly on here or by PM. I am also ChrisJ on the trollbox.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25706” timestamp=“1376640837”]
Even I am now getting fed up of mining the least profitable coin so others can drop by for a quick win and I’m considering taking on the attitude of if you can’t beat em, join em.Smaller more frequent changes mean would only fluctuate by a couple of positions on coinchoose rather than 10 or 15 and therefor encourage more miners to stick with us.
MOST MINERS ARE NOT LOYAL. They want to make money, as do most people involved in crypto.
[/quote]Personally I am very grateful for your loyal support in mining during low difficulty because it helped me to work on the SMS Address rollout and the Homeless project I am working on.
Please don’t “join 'em” Nutnut, don’t go to the darkside.
Is there anything you need asside from more stability in the coins that we might be able to help you with?
For example I can join your pool. I can buy you a pint in Oxford on the 7th with some FTC :)
Anything else?
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[quote name=“chrisj” post=“25715” timestamp=“1376650620”]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=3327.msg25706#msg25706 date=1376640837]
Even I am now getting fed up of mining the least profitable coin so others can drop by for a quick win and I’m considering taking on the attitude of if you can’t beat em, join em.Smaller more frequent changes mean would only fluctuate by a couple of positions on coinchoose rather than 10 or 15 and therefor encourage more miners to stick with us.
MOST MINERS ARE NOT LOYAL. They want to make money, as do most people involved in crypto.
[/quote]Personally I am very grateful for your loyal support in mining during low difficulty because it helped me to work on the SMS Address rollout and the Homeless project I am working on.
Please don’t “join 'em” Nutnut, don’t go to the darkside.
Is there anything you need asside from more stability in the coins that we might be able to help you with?
For example I can join your pool. I can buy you a pint in Oxford on the 7th with some FTC :)
Anything else?
[/quote]Haha, dude, i think you misunderstand me. It’s not a pint or mining on my pool that will make me stick around it’s smoothing out the hashrate/difficulty spike so i don’t have to mine it back down for the arseholes in the troll box to decsend on us for 8 hours only to ramp it back up again.
I personally think (as do a LOT of miners - particularly the hardcore) that smaller more frequent diff changes WILL make miners stick around as it will save them mining at a high diff for days only to get a brief 8 hours of low diff. I feel like the bullied kid at school who has to do everyones homework or get his flushed down the crapper.
My point is, as the Director of Mining i listen to the miners, speak for the miners and mine myself so i know how we think and work. Miners NEED the diff swing to be reduced. We don’t mind if the diff naturally increases due to prices/economy cos that means we’re still covering the leccy bills and we’re getting where we want to be as THE alt currency. When it’s up and down there’s simply very little in it for us during the tough times.
I’m not going anywhere just yet but i need to be heard and i speak for the loyal miners.
Bushstar once called me a professional miner because I have HUGE outlays and HUGE leccy bills to cover and therefor maybe i [b]should[/b] move around or stick to litecoin (this was back in may)… maybe i am (and not to belittle the smaller miners) but it’s the pro-miners that bring the big guns to the party so we need to look after them. A 40% swing in diff/coin return is HUGE to a “pro miner” and could be worth 150+ coins per day, i think you see why they get itchy feet?
The more of them we have full time, the more secure we are.
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[quote name=“Nutnut” post=“25716” timestamp=“1376653584”]
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3327.msg25715#msg25715 date=1376650620]
[quote author=Nutnut link=topic=3327.msg25706#msg25706 date=1376640837]
Even I am now getting fed up of mining the least profitable coin so others can drop by for a quick win and I’m considering taking on the attitude of if you can’t beat em, join em.Smaller more frequent changes mean would only fluctuate by a couple of positions on coinchoose rather than 10 or 15 and therefor encourage more miners to stick with us.
MOST MINERS ARE NOT LOYAL. They want to make money, as do most people involved in crypto.
[/quote]Personally I am very grateful for your loyal support in mining during low difficulty because it helped me to work on the SMS Address rollout and the Homeless project I am working on.
Please don’t “join 'em” Nutnut, don’t go to the darkside.
Is there anything you need asside from more stability in the coins that we might be able to help you with?
For example I can join your pool. I can buy you a pint in Oxford on the 7th with some FTC :)
Anything else?
[/quote]Haha, dude, i think you misunderstand me. It’s not a pint or mining on my pool that will make me stick around it’s smoothing out the hashrate/difficulty spike so i don’t have to mine it back down for the arseholes in the troll box to decsend on us for 8 hours only to ramp it back up again.
I personally think (as do a LOT of miners - particularly the hardcore) that smaller more frequent diff changes WILL make miners stick around as it will save them mining at a high diff for days only to get a brief 8 hours of low diff. I feel like the bullied kid at school who has to do everyones homework or get his flushed down the crapper.
My point is, as the Director of Mining i listen to the miners, speak for the miners and mine myself so i know how we think and work. Miners NEED the diff swing to be reduced. We don’t mind if the diff naturally increases due to prices/economy cos that means we’re still covering the leccy bills and we’re getting where we want to be as THE alt currency. When it’s up and down there’s simply very little in it for us during the tough times.
I’m not going anywhere just yet but i need to be heard and i speak for the loyal miners.
Bushstar once called me a professional miner because I have HUGE outlays and HUGE leccy bills to cover and therefor maybe i [b]should[/b] move around or stick to litecoin (this was back in may)… maybe i am (and not to belittle the smaller miners) but it’s the pro-miners that bring the big guns to the party so we need to look after them. A 40% swing in diff/coin return is HUGE to a “pro miner” and could be worth 150+ coins per day, i think you see why they get itchy feet?
The more of them we have full time, the more secure we are.
[/quote]Okay that’s great, I think I have a clearer picture now. I am listening, I am sure you won’t say no to a pint though ;)
So do you feel that you request for a smoother difficulty adjustment is being heard or would you like to see more action in this area?
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Nutnut is correct I believe. With more frequent difficulty adjusts at less variance it should encourage more loyal miners and would actually deter multipools if the time between adjusts was small enough. I am used to working through high difficulty with Litecoin but that was before we had so many migrant miners. These miners means that we move by the maximum each time and 41% feels to great a number for that.
Ideally we want a faster adjust like Ghostlander suggests. However, with very small difficulty adjusts people seem to find ways to exploit or abuse it which is my concern. We do not want to end up like Terracoin having to issue several hard forks in quick succession. Hard forks are something that should be done as infrequently as possible. We have only ever gone through this process once at block 33,000 when we got hit by the 400% difficulty adjust that we use to have.
If we go for something somewhat conventional like half or a quarter or even an eighth of what we have right now we could perhaps bundle this with the ACP release. Any grand changes to the way that difficulty is calculated will have to be vigorously tested.
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“25730” timestamp=“1376665564”]
Ideally we want a faster adjust like Ghostlander suggests. However, with very small difficulty adjusts people seem to find ways to exploit or abuse it which is my concern. We do not want to end up like Terracoin having to issue several hard forks in quick succession. Hard forks are something that should be done as infrequently as possible. We have only ever gone through this process once at block 33,000 when we got hit by the 400% difficulty adjust that we use to have.
[/quote]Terracoin was exploited through a time travel bug. Their 1 hour retarget window (30 blocks at 2 minutes each by default) also was a breach for attackers. Sunny King has had these fixed in April, but TRC can be abused anyway in these ASIC days. It cannot compete with Bitcoin for resources. Neither PPC can. Our situation is different, though we can learn from their mistakes, too.
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The OT of this thread is “Diff trap … again”.
I still believe software solutions can’t fix this “problem”. It’s educational work, promotions, PR that convert junk-coin miners to FTC miners.
Lets take a look a coinchoose right now:
[b]Number 1 is Alphacoin[/b]: 8 MH/s network speed and an exchange rate of 0.00000733:
When I look at the Ask side on Cryptsy there are not a lot of people willing to buy Alphacoin.
A few oders at 0.00000733, some at 0.00000732, etc.
The Ask side from 0.00000733 all the way down to 0.00000500 is maybe 1.5BTC in total!In other words: I have no chance to make the 750% profitability that coinchoose promises because I can’t transfer my Alphacoin to BTC. Or fiat.
[b]Number 2 is Nibble[/b]: 1.49 MH/s network speed and an exchange rate of 0.00006558:
1.49 MH/s network speed? Seriously? Even my Office PC can start a 51% attack on this coin. Why would I risk mining a coin that could be worthless in the next 5 minutes?… and so on and so on …
The first coin to take serious comes at [b]number 15 (Novacoin)[/b]. Exchange rate 0.04729 and 2220 MH/s network speed.
[b]Summarized: We have to educate the alt coin miners[/b]. In the end it’s about stability. Same as in stock markets: You can have a lucky shot with some high tech start up. Followed by 5 unlucky shots. The way to “get rich” is with stability (equity funds for example). A stable growth of 5, 6, 7% or more per year.
It’s this “I can beat the market” that makes people (the fast majority!, not Goldman Sachs & other big players) actually lose money in the stock markets. And, imho, the same is true for alt coin mining: This constant jumping around makes you lose money in the end - unless maybe you have a very good strategy and strictly and disciplined follow it. Because 90% of the alt coins are in a downward spiral (difficulty and exchange rate wise) you have to dump them as fast as you can.
Feathercoin is different! Difficulty constantly around 140 - 200. Stable exchange rate.
[b]The facts are there people! We just have to show them to the alt coin miners.[/b]
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Agreed, chasing the most profitable coin does not work as there is often not enough volume to support those prices. If people focused on the long term then I like to think that they would mine Feathercoin. However if they have kit to pay for or mining no longer covers the costs, then they may need to shift their mining elsewhere to a coin that does have the volume to support the price. Right now this will be when the difficulty is high.
I believe that we should push for greater adoption and talk to people about the merits of Feathercoin, but also, if we can make Feathercoin a better coin for miners then we should pursue that too. Making the difficulty changes more frequent to a lesser variance will make the difficulty swings less violent and fairer to loyal miners.
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[quote name=“Radacoin” post=“25770” timestamp=“1376738900”]
The OT of this thread is “Diff trap … again”.I still believe software solutions can’t fix this “problem”. It’s educational work, promotions, PR that convert junk-coin miners to FTC miners.
Lets take a look a coinchoose right now:
[b]Number 1 is Alphacoin[/b]: 8 MH/s network speed and an exchange rate of 0.00000733:
When I look at the Ask side on Cryptsy there are not a lot of people willing to buy Alphacoin.
A few oders at 0.00000733, some at 0.00000732, etc.
The Ask side from 0.00000733 all the way down to 0.00000500 is maybe 1.5BTC in total!In other words: I have no chance to make the 750% profitability that coinchoose promises because I can’t transfer my Alphacoin to BTC. Or fiat.
[b]Number 2 is Nibble[/b]: 1.49 MH/s network speed and an exchange rate of 0.00006558:
1.49 MH/s network speed? Seriously? Even my Office PC can start a 51% attack on this coin. Why would I risk mining a coin that could be worthless in the next 5 minutes?… and so on and so on …
The first coin to take serious comes at [b]number 15 (Novacoin)[/b]. Exchange rate 0.04729 and 2220 MH/s network speed.
[b]Summarized: We have to educate the alt coin miners[/b]. In the end it’s about stability. Same as in stock markets: You can have a lucky shot with some high tech start up. Followed by 5 unlucky shots. The way to “get rich” is with stability (equity funds for example). A stable growth of 5, 6, 7% or more per year.
It’s this “I can beat the market” that makes people (the fast majority!, not Goldman Sachs & other big players) actually lose money in the stock markets. And, imho, the same is true for alt coin mining: This constant jumping around makes you lose money in the end - unless maybe you have a very good strategy and strictly and disciplined follow it. Because 90% of the alt coins are in a downward spiral (difficulty and exchange rate wise) you have to dump them as fast as you can.
Feathercoin is different! Difficulty constantly around 140 - 200. Stable exchange rate.
[b]The facts are there people! We just have to show them to the alt coin miners.[/b]
[/quote]Do you want to work with me getting this messaging out there?
How hard would it be to do our own coinwarz? But with our own algo?
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Even I am now getting fed up of mining the least profitable coin so others can drop by for a quick win and I’m considering taking on the attitude of if you can’t beat em, join em.Smaller more frequent changes mean would only fluctuate by a couple of positions on coinchoose rather than 10 or 15 and therefor encourage more miners to stick with us.
MOST MINERS ARE NOT LOYAL. They want to make money, as do most people involved in crypto.
[/quote]Personally I am very grateful for your loyal support in mining during low difficulty because it helped me to work on the SMS Address rollout and the Homeless project I am working on.
Please don’t “join 'em” Nutnut, don’t go to the darkside.
Is there anything you need asside from more stability in the coins that we might be able to help you with?
For example I can join your pool. I can buy you a pint in Oxford on the 7th with some FTC :)
Anything else?
[/quote]Haha, dude, i think you misunderstand me. It’s not a pint or mining on my pool that will make me stick around it’s smoothing out the hashrate/difficulty spike so i don’t have to mine it back down for the arseholes in the troll box to decsend on us for 8 hours only to ramp it back up again.
I personally think (as do a LOT of miners - particularly the hardcore) that smaller more frequent diff changes WILL make miners stick around as it will save them mining at a high diff for days only to get a brief 8 hours of low diff. I feel like the bullied kid at school who has to do everyones homework or get his flushed down the crapper.
My point is, as the Director of Mining i listen to the miners, speak for the miners and mine myself so i know how we think and work. Miners NEED the diff swing to be reduced. We don’t mind if the diff naturally increases due to prices/economy cos that means we’re still covering the leccy bills and we’re getting where we want to be as THE alt currency. When it’s up and down there’s simply very little in it for us during the tough times.
I’m not going anywhere just yet but i need to be heard and i speak for the loyal miners.
Bushstar once called me a professional miner because I have HUGE outlays and HUGE leccy bills to cover and therefor maybe i [b]should[/b] move around or stick to litecoin (this was back in may)… maybe i am (and not to belittle the smaller miners) but it’s the pro-miners that bring the big guns to the party so we need to look after them. A 40% swing in diff/coin return is HUGE to a “pro miner” and could be worth 150+ coins per day, i think you see why they get itchy feet?
The more of them we have full time, the more secure we are.
[/quote]+1
Im getting tired of mining the diff down on ftc. I have no issue with the diff increasing. that just means fewer ftc pr day and most likely higher value because of that.
But this constant diff rollercoaster is driving me nuts (get it ;D)
I would be much better off financially if i just directed my 13.8 (soon 16)Mhash towards the multipools and just bought ftc with those earnings…However, im a firm supporter of ftc, and will continue to support both the network and the forum.
I need however to know that this is taken seriously, and there will be an end to this stupid diff bungy ::)
