Why feathercoin?
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I know to a lot of you this idea sounds rediculous, but this is already happening for other coins, i know so many people that bought btc, and converted it into ltc, and doge because there were specific things that they wanted.
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Good point OriginalContents, millions of goods, services are being trade everyday, take your pick and if I were to offer a 10% discount if they payed in feathercoins?
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[quote name=“efeather” post=“48448” timestamp=“1388427948”]
Good point OriginalContents, millions of goods, services are being trade everyday, take your pick and if I were to offer a 10% discount if they payed in feathercoins?
[/quote]now that idea i like
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[quote name=“OriginalContents” post=“48282” timestamp=“1388348275”]
So far I like feathercoin. I love the security aspect of it, and I also think that adding a small degree of centralization will make it more appealing to people and governments.
[/quote]There’s nothing good that can possibly come of any amount of centralization. Any perceived advantage is an illusion, and a dangerous one at that.
But I’m interested in your reasoning. Why do you think single points of failure are more attractive to people and governments? Is it because it makes it easier to subvert the intentions of the majority? Why is having a benevolent dictator for life a better model than distributed consensus in a trust-less environment? Centralization is about consolidating power, so why should people choose a coin that has been stripped of it’s enabling features and leaves them powerless? What exactly is the argument being made here?
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“48451” timestamp=“1388429621”]
[quote author=OriginalContents link=topic=6460.msg48282#msg48282 date=1388348275]
So far I like feathercoin. I love the security aspect of it, and I also think that adding a small degree of centralization will make it more appealing to people and governments.
[/quote]There’s nothing good that can possibly come of any amount of centralization. Any perceived advantage is an illusion, and a dangerous one at that.
But I’m interested in your reasoning. Why do you think single points of failure are more attractive to people and governments? Is it because it makes it easier to subvert the intentions of the majority? Why is having a benevolent dictator for life a better model than distributed consensus in a trust-less environment? Centralization is about consolidating power, so why should people choose a coin that has been stripped of it’s enabling features and leaves them powerless? What exactly is the argument being made here?[/quote]
Isnt the point of the checkpointing feature supposed to prevent from a 51% attack? please correct me if im wrong, but right now this is centralized and in time will become decentralized as things progress.
As for people giving up liberty for security, unless you’re an anarchist you do this in the real world. Personally im a libertarian so i believe that there is a very small amount necessary for the security of everyone but a small amount is just that a very small amount. What ive heard so far appeals to me, its not centralized holding, its not centralized computing, its a centralized check and balance system that is planned to become decentralized as things progress
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[quote name=“OriginalContents” post=“48347” timestamp=“1388391242”]
[quote author=mirrax link=topic=6460.msg48285#msg48285 date=1388349537]
The word [b]WE[/b] also includes [b]YOU[/b], so don’t be shy and go ahead…
[/quote]Don’t be so aversive to criticism, that’s exactly what this community doesn’t need. I plan on doing just that, but since i noticed this problem in the first place, i figured id share the idea with everyone as well.
[/quote]I meant this as push, not criticism ;)
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[quote name=“OriginalContents” post=“48462” timestamp=“1388431432”]
Isnt the point of the checkpointing feature supposed to prevent from a 51% attack? please correct me if im wrong, but right now this is centralized and in time will become decentralized as things progress.
[/quote]Nope. A 51% attack is still a very real and potentially scary possibility which ACP does absolutely nothing to address.
[quote]
As for people giving up liberty for security, unless you’re an anarchist you do this in the real world. Personally im a libertarian so i believe that there is a very small amount necessary for the security of everyone but a small amount is just that a very small amount.
[/quote]That’s because a self-governing system has never had what it takes to succeed in the real world, until now. Embrace the future! Technology can solve these problems, leaving us with security WITHOUT giving up freedom. Even the most ardent libertarian would agree that if we can achieve the same goal without giving up power, this would be preferred to a lesser solution which requires surrendering power with no gain.
[quote]
What ive heard so far appeals to me, its not centralized holding, its not centralized computing, its a centralized check and balance system that is planned to become decentralized as things progress
[/quote]No, ACP doesn’t provide any checks and balances. It subverts the intentions of the majority putting the power in the hands of a singular minority, disallowing blockchain reorgs beyond a certain length while doing nothing to ensure even distribution of the hash power on the network. This isn’t balance, it’s disenfranchisement of miners and it prevents a very important function of the blockchain from operating as designed while doing nothing to stop a subversive element from dictating the blockchain via a 51% attack. To make matters worse, having ACP in place makes the need for a more even distribution of hash power practically non-existent, so there’s decreasing incentive to distribute hash power, making the reliance on ACP grow over time, not shrink. It’s LITERALLY the bane of our existence, and the sooner we can rip it out and never look back, the better off the coin will be.
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[quote name=“Kirjokansi” post=“48488” timestamp=“1388435394”]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=6460.msg48451#msg48451 date=1388429621]
[quote author=OriginalContents link=topic=6460.msg48282#msg48282 date=1388348275]
So far I like feathercoin. I love the security aspect of it, and I also think that adding a small degree of centralization will make it more appealing to people and governments.
[/quote]There’s nothing good that can possibly come of any amount of centralization. Any perceived advantage is an illusion, and a dangerous one at that.
But I’m interested in your reasoning. Why do you think single points of failure are more attractive to people and governments? Is it because it makes it easier to subvert the intentions of the majority? Why is having a benevolent dictator for life a better model than distributed consensus in a trust-less environment? Centralization is about consolidating power, so why should people choose a coin that has been stripped of it’s enabling features and leaves them powerless? What exactly is the argument being made here?
[/quote]It’s because of the same reason people always turn for and in to dictators. It’s because of them. It’s the promise of security. From them.
[/quote]But what promise is being made?
“More security”, I’m sure you’re going to say.
Ok, how?
“By preventing 51% attacks.”
Nope. ACP means that a 51% attacker can mint his own blockchain faster than all the others, and ACP will actually prevent others from stopping them with an increase in hash rate and a concerted effort to undo the damage they did. With ACP, a grass-roots effort CANNOT undo the damage done by a 51% attacker, even if they acquire more hash power. ACP helps attackers ensure their blockchain is the one that remains as the head of the chain.
“By stopping double spends.”
Nope. Double spends are still entirely possible, even after a few confirmations.
“By stripping miners of the power to provide a distributed majority consensus in a trust-less environment, disincentivizing mining distribution, providing a single point of failure, and enabling new vectors of attack to subvert the coin without any sort of representation or recourse.”
Ah! Yes, now you have it.
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Thanks for the info. So then since you know this what keeps you here?
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The community, of course!
Feathercoin has an amazing community that continually supports innovation and drives adoption of the coin. There’s some really smart, passionate people here, and together we’re constantly working to improve the situation and drive adoption of the currency. ChrisJ is a fantastic leader, and together we’re all advancing a common agenda in a way that individually none of us could hope to achieve. It’s important to remember that Feathercoin is an open source project, and anyone can take it’s source code and apply appropriate solutions to the problems they find, and the community will vote with it’s acceptance in true democratic form. These problems are solved because interested parties take it upon themselves to solve the problems. I’m one such interested party, and I’m innovating and experimenting all the time, along with the help and support of the people here. They literally throw money at me when I say, “Hmm… I think I’ll solve this problem.”. It’s brilliant. People who can’t code vote with their wallet or find other ways to contribute, problems get solved, and everyone benefits long term. It’s amazing to see how much time and effort goes into this coin by non-developers. They’re the real hero in this story… not the developers like myself who write the code for other people to use, but the ones who take what the developers build and make the most out of it, pushing the boundaries of what was previously possible and hastening a revolution.
ACP is a pothole in a long road that is the life of the coin, and the opportunities that we create together is much greater than a technological hurdle which must be overcome.
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Quiet right, Bitcoin will be dictating the price of feathercoin for years to come, how do we tiny little feathers get out from underneath the shadow Bitcoin casts upon us, any other ideas are most welcome?
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[quote name=“efeather” post=“48524” timestamp=“1388443258”]
Quiet right, Bitcoin will be dictating the price of feathercoin for years to come, how do we tiny little feathers get out from underneath the shadow Bitcoin casts upon us, any other ideas are most welcome?
[/quote]Two things: Adoption, and innovation. Interestingly, one often leads to the other.
When you innovate, you increase the utility of the coin, which encourages more adoption.
When you increase adoption, more people are faced with problems which require solutions, encouraging innovation.Both of these lead to a higher valuation over the long term. Little things that you do can have a large impact over the long run. Let’s say you convince a merchant to accept bitcoin. In doing so, he ends up educating other people about it, which increases adoption. As more people go to use it, more problems arise, and someone clever innovates to solve that problem, reducing the barrier to entry for more adopters.
So… what can you do? You can get involved! We’re building Link on top of Feathercoin, and soon I’ll be working on a Twitter Tip Bot too. The market place always needs more sellers of goods, and the sellers there always need more buyers. Mining increases network stability and decreases centralization. The client code is open source, and people are building new projects on top of it all the time. There’s so many little projects going on around here all the time, it’s easy to get involved and grow the coin’s user base, utility, and value.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“48544” timestamp=“1388448579”]
Two things: Adoption, and innovation. Interestingly, one often leads to the other.
[/quote]
I’d have to agree on this completely but I think also we are in some a special scenario right now with a highly technical “product” that is already pretty innovative and not easily understandable by the majority of people in the world. That will greatly slow adoption.
But, we are also in a scenario where I think the initial way for all these competitive coins to survive is a more cut-throat environment. It is the coins that get good publicity and potentially early capital investment funds flowing into them that will survive - i.e. yes these are scene as investments next by many market players and that is probably the next step before full adoption. If FTC can get an infusion of capital investment and be seen as an investment at least in the short-term then it will survive in time to grow its more global adoption requirement to be valuable long-term for use just about on anything. We have to keep getting the word out as a broader community, expand way outside of the UK where things seem prodominently focused, etc. We seem to have a team that is willing to do that, stand out, find investors potentially, and also work on that innovation thing at the same time ;-)