How can we make Crypto currency fair?
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The unfair thing about cryptocurrency IMO might be the way new coins are created.
If those with more computational power generate more, then the process is centralized, owned by a few rich groups/individuals.
Maybe generation of coins should not have been based on computational power or something that can be easily automated. -
[quote]Where no one is rich and everything is equal is that what you mean by fair. That’s a nice thought but its doubtful anyone will ever achieve that.[/quote]
No Im not a communist, a true capitalist free market society with minimal goverment would be my preffered choice in UK and I have nothing against the rich. I only have a problem with bitcoin and feather coin [b]if[/b] in the future I am forced to partake in selling my products for these coins because the free market has choosen them as a viable method of wealth transfer. If I choose not to use them I would be failing to adapt, and hurting my bussiness in return. I would feel like I am being forced to take part in something I thought was rigged, I mean you guys are freely admiting you are hoarding to profit.
Anyway this thread is going off track, it appears the answer is to the question is [b]suck it life aint fair[/b]
Lets see where crypto goes in the next few months, hopefully in the trash so the 99.9999% of us that don’t hold any can build a better system.
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[quote name=“gavztheouch” post=“38545” timestamp=“1385949240”]
I only have a problem with bitcoin and feather coin if in the future I am forced to partake in selling my products for these coins because the [b]free market has choosen[/b] them as a viable method of wealth transfer. If I choose not to use them I would be failing to adapt, and hurting my bussiness in return. I would feel like [b]I am being forced[/b] to take part in something I thought was rigged…
[/quote]I’m sorry, but you are not making sense. If the free market you so espouse chooses either BTC or FTC as the standard - and you do not adapt with the free market, then you are simply being an idiot. No one forces you to do anything - but not adapting to market expectations is BAD BUSINESS.
I’m really have no idea what your points are. Can you please give them to me bullet point or something? This is so confusing.
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Crypto currency ≠source of easy income. Early adopters & miners have solved a social problem of giant dimensions. You are failing to notice what they missed reading math books in their youth. Their salary is for courage, faith and work. Today, miners are merely paid guards. Their salary is meager. If you don’t believe, become one of them. For the rest of us, crypto means merely that it pays off to work again. You won’t be able to pull off miracle profits on cryptos anymore (Feathercoin being possible exception as of now), but do what you are good at, work, invent, create, and your salary won’t go down the drain as it does in the legacy system. The power of the industrial complex is so great, that we will not have to work overtime to afford a private electric aiplane. The advent of cryptos merely means that this power will no longer go into building useless boxes of glass and steel in the city centers, but to those who solve the problems â€" and we have many of those left to solve. If you want buy cryptos, view it as a (temporary) donation. Donate only so much as you can miss on the long run. The currency has 0 intrinsic value, your donation means that you paying the community members salary for solving the problem of making your crypto usable for everyday purchases in the future.
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Hi I don’t see why crypto currencies should be fair, and agree with the sentiments that this would be communism and render the currencies virtually pointless because an equally distributed amount would be just a dead market. I think what’s great about crypto is that it is the purest expression of capitalism, it is an attempt to see if capitalism can work ‘without’ regulators. We shouldn’t let notions of fairness get in the way of all this good fun :)
I also don’t mind if satoshi or FTC devs mined a few million coins before release whether true or not I say good on them. If they are going to bust their butts and bring something to market they should get fat shares in the company of course they should, I know if I made a coin I’m damn sure I would mine some :) :) :)
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I think its important to point out that FTC was created without pre-mine specifically because that concept is unfair.
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[quote]I’m sorry, but you are not making sense. If the free market you so espouse chooses either BTC or FTC as the standard - and you do not adapt with the free market, then you are simply being an idiot. No one forces you to do anything - but not adapting to market expectations is BAD BUSINESS.[/quote]
I do not see what is so confusing to be honest. You have basicly just repeated what I have just said in your own words?
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You said you would be forced, but, in reality, there is no force involved. That’s the beauty of the market. You’re free to follow the trends of the market or to abandon them, to your own success or detriment. The cream rises to the top.
I believe fairness and freedom tend to be mutually exclusive; if not always, they trend that way. Freedom does not support fairness through any means, if you think that fairness means that all things are equal for everyone. However, if you believe that fairness means that people have the rights and freedoms to make their own way and succeed, then freedom means the ultimate fair playing field. There are no restrictions, no governments stepping in the way of profitable businesses which provide valuable services; there is only the freedom to forge one’s own path and make greatnessâ€"or to fail spectacularly, but that’s the beauty of it all.
Cryptocurrency helps with this because it removes the shackles of the State, something which cannot exist if one desires a free market or freedom in totality. Yes, minarchism and free market ideals are mutually exclusive. One must reject the State in order to achieve a pure free market. (Joke of the day: What’s the difference between a minarchist and anarchist? About six months.)
If we truly desire to move society forward, we must get away from these anachronistic ideals of fairness and equality. Things will never be entirely fair or equal, but freedom must be available for all in equal measures. I believe that is the ultimate test of fairness.
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[quote name=“kris_davison” post=“38587” timestamp=“1385972648”]
I think its important to point out that FTC was created without pre-mine specifically because that concept is unfair.
[/quote]Except for the genesis block, right?
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Oh come on now. The Genesis block doesn’t actually allow any coins to be created last I checked.
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[quote name=“gavztheouch” post=“38428” timestamp=“1385921720”]
I disagree that in a fair by the people for the people currency early adoptors [b]should[/b] get a premium or addtional coins. Just because a system of mining was used for alt/bitcoins does not mean a perfect currency should do it this way. Wasn’t feathecoin mined for months during a ‘testing phase’ by the developers?
[/quote]NO.
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[quote name=“Aldanga” post=“38786” timestamp=“1386005476”]
I believe fairness and freedom tend to be mutually exclusive; if not always, they trend that way.
[/quote]You’re confusing equality with fairness. Fairness means risk gets reward. Equality means equal work gets equal pay. Truth is most people wouldn’t be motivated at all if they had to think about every little detail. Too much to think about and keep track of. One advantage of freedom is you don’t have to wait for the perfect scenario. You take a chance.
Also, who cares if you miss the boat or not. I have seen quite a bit of money pass through my hands where I traded for coin and which I made a bit on.
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How can we make Crypto currency fair?
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When was the last time you beat your wife?
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[quote name=“gavztheouch” post=“38545” timestamp=“1385949240”]
Lets see where crypto goes in the next few months, hopefully in the trash so the 99.9999% of us that don’t hold any can build a better system.
[/quote]So you want someone else to suffer so your personal features come out on top? But you also want to hold, which means you benefit from other people’s work. You want equality and you want to win. Pick one.
Every time your holdings go up it’s because someone ELSE worked or risked or bought or traded. I was in at the beginning of some of these cryptos. I mined 7600 LTC at one point. I lost because I believed people would take a long time to go along with LTC.This is not what this community is about. This community is not about holding to benefit from someone else’s work. Once you begin buying and selling it doesn’t matter what the coins are worth as long as you make more than you used to have.
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Hi all,
I’m not a programmer but I have some thoughts, maybe they will be useful. Specifically with regard to this:
[quote]Maybe generation of coins should not have been based on computational power or something that can be easily automated.[/quote]
One thing I dont like about crypto coins is that they use energy to be produced, energy that is finite and could be better used elsewhere. I know that the main reason for this is that so cryptos are backed by something, i.e. energy, rather than nothing, but isn’t there a better, or more green, solution?
e.g. why not use [b]time[/b]?
For example, let’s say something like a TimeCoin was available wherein every X units of time a certain number of coins were released to the clients online at that time, and this number of time released coins reduced gradually etc.
This seems to be more green, and encourages people onto the TimeCoin network, which is what you want.
I have some other thoughts, but we’ll start with this one. :)
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[quote name=“Kramer1122” post=“39611” timestamp=“1386181467”]
Hi all,I’m not a programmer but I have some thoughts, maybe they will be useful. Specifically with regard to this:
[quote]Maybe generation of coins should not have been based on computational power or something that can be easily automated.[/quote]
One thing I dont like about crypto coins is that they use energy to be produced, energy that is finite and could be better used elsewhere. I know that the main reason for this is that so cryptos are backed by something, i.e. energy, rather than nothing, but isn’t there a better, or more green, solution?
e.g. why not use [b]time[/b]?
For example, let’s say something like a TimeCoin was available wherein every X units of time a certain number of coins were released to the clients online at that time, and this number of time released coins reduced gradually etc.
This seems to be more green, and encourages people onto the TimeCoin network, which is what you want.
I have some other thoughts, but we’ll start with this one. :)
[/quote]Before this goes any further, PLEASE read the original Satoshi witepaper. It’s here: [url=http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf]http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf[/url]
You need to understand what the blockchain is, how it’s created, and WHY a proof of work is required before you can replace it with something better. If you can produce a solution that doesn’t require a proof of work, and still provides distributed consensus, that’s fantastic. We’re all ears.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“39553” timestamp=“1386167333”]
[quote author=Aldanga link=topic=5102.msg38786#msg38786 date=1386005476]
I believe fairness and freedom tend to be mutually exclusive; if not always, they trend that way.
[/quote]You’re confusing equality with fairness. Fairness means risk gets reward. Equality means equal work gets equal pay. Truth is most people wouldn’t be motivated at all if they had to think about every little detail. Too much to think about and keep track of. One advantage of freedom is you don’t have to wait for the perfect scenario. You take a chance.[/quote]
Not at all. Just playing to the many definitions. I think you missed the next couple sentences in that paragraph. ;)
[quote author=Aldanga link=topic=5102.msg38786#msg38786 date=1386005476]
Freedom does not support fairness through any means, if you think that fairness means that all things are equal for everyone. However, if you believe that fairness means that people have the rights and freedoms to make their own way and succeed, then freedom means the ultimate fair playing field. There are no restrictions, no governments stepping in the way of profitable businesses which provide valuable services; there is only the freedom to forge one’s own path and make greatnessâ€"or to fail spectacularly, but that’s the beauty of it all.[/quote] -
[quote]
What I would like to see in a better Crypto.1. A steady supply of coins - This should prevent hoarding (Is inflation always a bad thing)
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Crypto is a currency - it’s meant to be used to purchase commodities/goods/services, etc. Right now people hoard because Crypto is speculated more like a stock/commodity and less like a currency. Currently there aren’t many well known vendors accepting crypto on a global scale with enough stuff that people want.I mine FTC throughout the day - On a single rig that isn’t meant for mining, I don’t get much at all, maybe 2 FTC a day - I don’t plan on selling that FTC for $$, at least not currently, because I don’t feel like playing crypto like a commodity market - With the way this stuff currently works its less investing and more lucky speculation. . .I wouldn’t call that “hoarding” - I’d call it waiting until it becomes more useful to me.
Eitherway, I think you’re confusing the word “fair” with something else.
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Kevlar,
Thanks for that info. I have not read the paper, but if it is not possible to utilise computers to check/work out the time then I guess the time idea would not work, due to the proof of work requirement. Or maybe it would work but require the same amount of computing power, thus giving no “greener” solution.One of my concerns is the wild fluctuation in price of bitcoin and cryptos in general. People are assuming it will settle down with little fluctuation, but I’m not sure what sound reasoning or facts that is based on. For example, I’m no economist but AFAIK the value of money to remain steady it’s creation must be in proportion to the provision of goods/services, balance of supply/demand etc. I think with BTC/FTC the max number of coins stops after a certain point, thus I don’t see how the price would settle. Of course, I can see it getting more stable, but not as stable as a paper currency might. I know fiat currency over long term is not stable, purchasing power declines, but it is still likely more stable than BTC.
If there is significant adoption of BTC, then I’d expect the price to keep rising steadily, so as an investment perhaps it is good (albeit high risk) but as an everyday trading currency I’m not so sure.Perhaps others can shed some light on this. Thanks.
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Kramer, I agree with you - I don’t see a future where crypto steadies out, because I don’t see something to keep it steady. In reality the thing that keeps the value of other currencies steady is that the value of the currency is finite [$1 is always $1, $5 is always $5 and $10 is always $10] because inflation increases the cost of the actual service, not the currency. [A movie may have cost $1 10 years ago. but costs $10 now. . .The moneys value has actually significantly decreased but we don’t notice it as the currency’s implied value is the same, but the service price has risen.]
With cryptos backing being other currencies what we are seeing is the price of cryptos fluctuating AS WELL AS the price of services [in relation to USD or other currencies, not into the relation of crypto price fluctuation].
