Big whale tanked FTC for manipulation
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28656” timestamp=“1379708643”]
[quote author=mnstrcck link=topic=3702.msg28654#msg28654 date=1379707969]
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28653#msg28653 date=1379707865]
What I don’t get is, without the big whales holding up the value, is there really anyone out there willing to buy FTC?
[/quote]Check out the volume on btc-e. We’re pretty much up there on day to day volume, and that’s even on days when the price doesn’t move. People are buying, people are selling. Only problem is that FTC is currently seen as a commodity rather than a currency.
[/quote]I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity. Speculation in fiat currencies are enormous, but manipulated by central banks etc to keep value steady.
Yes there is volume, but is it people selling/buying into the walls or is it the whales doing internal trading? Remember that anyone can trade with himself/herself on the markets, this is totally unregulated territory ( practically the wild west ). To create huge volumes are not so hard after all if one are willing to take some losses in the process (1-2% max daily ).
Don’t trust anyone in crypto-world…
[/quote]Right now FTC is valued on perception alone. That FTC is on BTC-e gives it a leg up on all other cryptos. It is pretty much treated as a commodity. This commodity is being sold at the largest volume alt-coin market. You want to sell your apples in new york, new york more than Wilmington, NC just on volume. With more store based sales and person-2-person exchanges the value will start to be set at in people’s minds. Outside of BTC no other coin has that right now, that’s right ltc isn’t there yet either.
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The market place for FTC is not there yet. Without this the price is likely to keep falling especially with the huge daily influx of FTC. (~110,000 FTC / day).
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28656” timestamp=“1379708643”]
I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity.
[/quote]FTC has performance advantages. There’s plenty of value there.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“28675” timestamp=“1379723288”]
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28656#msg28656 date=1379708643]
I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity.
[/quote]FTC has performance advantages. There’s plenty of value there.
[/quote]Yes… Less than 1/100th the value of bitcoin according to speculators. If that alone was valuable, FTC would be worth MORE than BTC. So that’s a non-argument in this case. If it’s to be on par with BTC, it must have the same adoption driving its value up.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“28680” timestamp=“1379728822”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=3702.msg28675#msg28675 date=1379723288]
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28656#msg28656 date=1379708643]
I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity.
[/quote]FTC has performance advantages. There’s plenty of value there.
[/quote]Yes… Less than 1/100th the value of bitcoin according to speculators. If that alone was valuable, FTC would be worth MORE than BTC. So that’s a non-argument in this case. If it’s to be on par with BTC, it must have the same adoption driving its value up.
[/quote]You mean the same mindless zombies who think the system they are gaming is going to be around forever? Those guys wouldn’t know gold from pyrite.
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@unkunku We’ll see when they start chasing us. This community isn’t split into consumer and developer. Everybody here puts time and creativity into it. Who can compete with that?
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“28713” timestamp=“1379767702”]
@unkunku We’ll see when they start chasing us. This community isn’t split into consumer and developer. Everybody here puts time and creativity into it. Who can compete with that?
[/quote]Thank-you @Zero. There are at least 4 of us who work on Feathercoin full time, and I am very proud to work with such an proactive bunch of people.
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28706” timestamp=“1379761991”]
I think you guys really overestimate the value the community has, and it surely isn’t giving FTC the current value, that’s pure market manipulation.Personally I think feathercoin is waay overvalued at current state, simply because buy orders are at or close to whale walls, if it was a balanced market then the whales walls would be way down the buy list.
[/quote]
How much lower would you like the value to go? I suppose you also think LTC is “undervalued”…
All of these crypto coins are manipulated. FTC is not the exception.
I agree with everything Kevlar said. What we need with FTC is a dilution of the market. This can be achieved by merchant adoption, more exchanges trading FTC etc. The more hands a currency changes, the more inherent it’s monetary value becomes.
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.
The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
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[quote name=“birddog” post=“28797” timestamp=“1379809251”]
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
[/quote]If there are no loyal miners, it’s game over for a coin. No one can be top profitable all the time. Loyal miners make transactions reliable. Who wants to use a coin with actual confirmation time for transactions jumping between minutes and hours?
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“28801” timestamp=“1379812890”]
[quote author=birddog link=topic=3702.msg28797#msg28797 date=1379809251]
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
[/quote]If there are no loyal miners, it’s game over for a coin. No one can be top profitable all the time. Loyal miners make transactions reliable. Who wants to use a coin with actual confirmation time for transactions jumping between minutes and hours?
[/quote]The fact is financial services and payment processing should not be these huge profit centres that they have turned in to. You are absolutely right in what you say, if we can figure this out that makes us more powerful that even Bitcoin itself and I feel we are very close.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“28801” timestamp=“1379812890”]
[quote author=birddog link=topic=3702.msg28797#msg28797 date=1379809251]
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
[/quote]If there are no loyal miners, it’s game over for a coin. No one can be top profitable all the time. Loyal miners make transactions reliable. Who wants to use a coin with actual confirmation time for transactions jumping between minutes and hours?
[/quote]I agree. Loyal miners are an absolute necessity. That is why it is half of the equation.
But for every loyal FTC miner there is, there is another miner that will mine Feathercoin with the sole intention of dumping on the market and exchanging FTC for their preferred currency.
There needs to be a happy medium. Coins need to be mined, transactions need to be processed… but there also needs to be value other than the value that comes from mining FTC in exchange for fiat or other cryptos.
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3702.msg28805#msg28805 date=1379814774]
The fact is financial services and payment processing should not be these huge profit centres that they have turned in to. You are absolutely right in what you say, if we can figure this out that makes us more powerful that even Bitcoin itself and I feel we are very close.
[/quote]+1
I wouldn’t be here if i didn’t feel Feathercoin was on the right track 8)
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At the end of the day, my favorite thing about FTC is that its actually heating my house right now in central Alaska. Being a dedicated miner is easy when my fuel is technically free - compare that to $4/gal for heating oil :) Even when the price is fluctuating up and down heavily, as long as it covers the electricity bill I’m still way ahead.
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[quote name=“rynomite” post=“28811” timestamp=“1379823107”]
At the end of the day, my favorite thing about FTC is that its actually heating my house right now in central Alaska. Being a dedicated miner is easy when my fuel is technically free - compare that to $4/gal for heating oil :) Even when the price is fluctuating up and down heavily, as long as it covers the electricity bill I’m still way ahead.
[/quote]Ah please put some pictures of your rig on my thread [url=http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=3670.0]http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=3670.0[/url]
I want to do the same :D
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28851” timestamp=“1379860074”]
Now to the value of FTC, in my personal belief the value is currently overestimated by around 20-40%, now this is what I BELIEVE, just as some guys believe that a stock share may be overvalued or undervalued with XX%.[/quote]What calculations have led you to this point?
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28851#msg28851 date=1379860074]
Regarding LTC, I do also think that it’s overvalued, there is a huge hype around it ( although it has declines somewhat now ).[/quote]It is probably. Atlantis announced to shut down 2 days ago, and it was the only large Deep Web market accepting Litecoin and not a very successful one. All the others (Silk Road, Black Market Reloaded, Sheep Market, etc.) accept Bitcoin only.
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28851#msg28851 date=1379860074]
Now I will bring up the topic of a potential implementation of Zerocoin, there would in this case be a massive user base as it in fact gives huge advantages in relation to conventional cryptos, and also great merchant adoption, although this merchant adoption would be of a more shady sort.
[/quote]Zerocoin is not enough to bring mass merchant adoption even of a shady kind. It will also play against legal merchants who may not like to be associated with a coin used widely for illegal activities.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“28866” timestamp=“1379868239”]
It will also play against legal merchants who may not like to be associated with a coin used widely for illegal activities.
[/quote]You mean like Bitcoin?
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“28889” timestamp=“1379877840”]
[quote author=ghostlander link=topic=3702.msg28866#msg28866 date=1379868239]
It will also play against legal merchants who may not like to be associated with a coin used widely for illegal activities.
[/quote]You mean like Bitcoin?
[/quote]Bitcoin is above competition currently. They are just rolling without paying much attention to altcoins. They have no need to fight for resources while altcoins have to. Bitcoin is #1 choice for merchants no matter legal or illegal. Feathercoin is fighting for #2 or #3 at least.
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28940” timestamp=“1379948997”]
More regarding Zerocoin, if FTC does not implement Zerocoin first, then someone else will, and it’s just soo much easier to be first just as Bitcoin was first in cryptoworld.
[/quote][url=https://github.com/meeh420/anoncoin]https://github.com/meeh420/anoncoin[/url]
[url=http://www.anoncoin.net]http://www.anoncoin.net[/url]They are actively working on it. The price has tripled since the announcement(whether that’s related).
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28940” timestamp=“1379948997”]
A quick look at the orderbook together with the current order values on BTC-e should tell you where the price of FTC is heading without market manipulation ( capital injection ), that will say straight south. [url=http://www.feathercoin.com/charts/]http://www.feathercoin.com/charts/[/url] and [url=https://btc-e.com/exchange/ftc_btc]https://btc-e.com/exchange/ftc_btc[/url]More regarding Zerocoin, if FTC does not implement Zerocoin first, then someone else will, and it’s just soo much easier to be first just as Bitcoin was first in cryptoworld.
[/quote]This should be of no surprise to anyone.
The reason should be obvious: There’s no web wallet, no payment processor competition, no marketplace, no cool features that other coins don’t already have and a lack of ones that others do, no timeline to improve the situation, no history of rapid development, and no formal plan in place to improve the situation.
There is, in short, nothing to stick the value of this coin to anything other than exchange rates, and nothing on the horizon either.
Without adoption in the form of services, such a price point can’t possibly be sustained when there are other more ‘interesting’ coins competing in the same space. There’s nothing that would stop anyone from taking the FTC code base, re-branding it something else, and devoting some competent development resources to the problem of services surrounding it to absolutely CRUSH FTC’s technical advantage, which means that the price is decided on speculation alone and not intrinsic value. The price was driven up on speculation, and as that speculation dries up with the promises it was based upon, so will the price fall.
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28940” timestamp=“1379948997”]
A quick look at the orderbook together with the current order values on BTC-e should tell you where the price of FTC is heading without market manipulation ( capital injection ), that will say straight south. [url=http://www.feathercoin.com/charts/]http://www.feathercoin.com/charts/[/url] and [url=https://btc-e.com/exchange/ftc_btc]https://btc-e.com/exchange/ftc_btc[/url][/quote]
This is not a calculation. This is a subjective observation. Market prices are volatile, no surprise there. Real value comes from mass adoption, merchants and services. Feathercoin does very well in this direction. I see no other altcoin to show a better progress.[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28940#msg28940 date=1379948997]
More regarding Zerocoin, if FTC does not implement Zerocoin first, then someone else will, and it’s just soo much easier to be first just as Bitcoin was first in cryptoworld.
[/quote]
Guys, if you or anyone else want to implement Zerocoin for Feathercoin, there is no problem. Do the job and make people happy. I’m not saying Zerocoin is a worthless junk. I just don’t consider this feature of top importance, other developers also don’t seem to be motivated enough. That’s all. -
[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“28946” timestamp=“1379955762”]
The reason should be obvious: There’s no web wallet, no payment processor competition, no marketplace, no cool features that other coins don’t already have and a lack of ones that others do, no timeline to improve the situation, no history of rapid development, and no formal plan in place to improve the situation.
[/quote]Many of the things above require significant investments. It’s not something a single man can code over a weekend. Every separate project like payment processor needs dedicated management, programmers, support staff, business plan, venture capital, etc.
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=3702.msg28946#msg28946 date=1379955762]
There’s nothing that would stop anyone from taking the FTC code base, re-branding it something else, and devoting some competent development resources to the problem of services surrounding it to absolutely CRUSH FTC’s technical advantage, which means that the price is decided on speculation alone and not intrinsic value. The price was driven up on speculation, and as that speculation dries up with the promises it was based upon, so will the price fall.
[/quote]It’s not enough to take the code. It’s not of much use if there is a little understanding of it. It’s the people behind the code who make it doing a job. It’s the community behind the coin to make it a success.
