Big whale tanked FTC for manipulation
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[quote name=“jeremiel” post=“28529” timestamp=“1379617767”]
[quote author=wrapper0feather link=topic=3702.msg28365#msg28365 date=1379453309]
The Mint doesn’t worry if the stock exchange has a bad day. Our business is to secure the network and promote the community.- What is a big whale and how did it hit a wall at 99?
[/quote]
I realized I didn’t answer your question.
A big whale is someone who comes in with a lot of money. In this case 700+ BTC.
The whale created a fake wall which affected everything around it then made it vanish. Thus manipulating the market for sell off.
Why is this a concern for the community? Any monetary system should be concerned by large manipulations. In the BTC market major fluctuations at gox cause fluctuations in the market overall because of it’s market share. This is slowly eroding though it’s having less of an effect due to more exchanges grabbing a percentage of the market. My suggestion/question was more geared to how can dilute the effect of such a manipulation? Which would be to have more people with the currency in everyday life but also diversification in exchanges. BTC-e is essentially the gox of FTC.
[/quote]That’s correct. The people who are being hurt the worst is FTC holders. What your witnessing is called a “price correction”, and it’s caused by two teams: The big whale, and those who believe that a coins is worth what it’s exchanging for on BTC-e.
You can dilute the effect of such a manipulation by increasing the value of the coin: The more it’s perceived to be worth, the harder it is to manipulate. If the coin were more widely adopted, the price would be harder to manipulate because with that adoption comes stability and more reference prices to be informed by. When a coin is pegged to a value in terms of it’s worth by multiple sources, manipulating the price becomes a lot harder, because people can simply say, “Well, it’s still worth X for a Y on Z, so that’s a good deal, I should buy into the sell off.” and all the whale will do is lose his coins at a cheap rate.
The problem is lack of mainstream adoption. But, as the argument goes, it’s not ready for that yet, so the devs are adjusting it so it may be.
[quote]Was this a sign of bad times for FTC? No. Just someone manipulating the market. I’m not expecting a big to do about but rather as something to remind everyone that there are other things to pay attention too.
[/quote]I wouldn’t say sign of bad times… the fact that the coins is still on the radar of the people who want to manipulate the currency for their own profit certainly speaks more highly of it than most other coins. Only a hand full can claim the dubious honor of being significant enough in their market cap to be abused by market manipulators.
But I kind of think there SHOULD be a big to-do about it. This is [u][b][i]CRITICAL[/i][/b][/u] news for anyone who is invested in FTC, or is thinking of investing in it. If I were running a crypto-coin newspaper, this would be on the front page.
Please do not sweep this under the rug. Ban my account for being negative if you want, but someone’s gotta stand up and say, “HEY! THIS ISN’T OK!” because it’s not; It’s not ok to be victimized and stolen by market manipulators, and the story needs to be told to anyone who’s listening.
- What is a big whale and how did it hit a wall at 99?
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“28571” timestamp=“1379637504”]
[quote]Was this a sign of bad times for FTC? No. Just someone manipulating the market. I’m not expecting a big to do about but rather as something to remind everyone that there are other things to pay attention too.
[/quote]I wouldn’t say sign of bad times… the fact that the coins is still on the radar of the people who want to manipulate the currency for their own profit certainly speaks more highly of it than most other coins. Only a hand full can claim the dubious honor of being significant enough in their market cap to be abused by market manipulators.
But I kind of think there SHOULD be a big to-do about it. This is [u][b][i]CRITICAL[/i][/b][/u] news for anyone who is invested in FTC, or is thinking of investing in it. If I were running a crypto-coin newspaper, this would be on the front page.
Please do not sweep this under the rug. Ban my account for being negative if you want, but someone’s gotta stand up and say, “HEY! THIS ISN’T OK!” because it’s not; It’s not ok to be victimized and stolen by market manipulators, and the story needs to be told to anyone who’s listening.
[/quote]haha… I’m trying to be less volatile. The last few times I thought something like this was a major issue I was minimized because it was viewed as something of the norm. aka sit down and shut up. Hard to pound against a marketing machine.
I almost wish there was a historically annotated graph on the major market moves. For awhile I’ve been interested in creating a watchdog group because of stuff like this though time is becoming thin for me.
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28653” timestamp=“1379707865”]
What I don’t get is, without the big whales holding up the value, is there really anyone out there willing to buy FTC?
[/quote]Check out the volume on btc-e. We’re pretty much up there on day to day volume, and that’s even on days when the price doesn’t move. People are buying, people are selling. Only problem is that FTC is currently seen as a commodity rather than a currency.
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28656” timestamp=“1379708643”]
[quote author=mnstrcck link=topic=3702.msg28654#msg28654 date=1379707969]
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28653#msg28653 date=1379707865]
What I don’t get is, without the big whales holding up the value, is there really anyone out there willing to buy FTC?
[/quote]Check out the volume on btc-e. We’re pretty much up there on day to day volume, and that’s even on days when the price doesn’t move. People are buying, people are selling. Only problem is that FTC is currently seen as a commodity rather than a currency.
[/quote]I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity. Speculation in fiat currencies are enormous, but manipulated by central banks etc to keep value steady.
Yes there is volume, but is it people selling/buying into the walls or is it the whales doing internal trading? Remember that anyone can trade with himself/herself on the markets, this is totally unregulated territory ( practically the wild west ). To create huge volumes are not so hard after all if one are willing to take some losses in the process (1-2% max daily ).
Don’t trust anyone in crypto-world…
[/quote]Right now FTC is valued on perception alone. That FTC is on BTC-e gives it a leg up on all other cryptos. It is pretty much treated as a commodity. This commodity is being sold at the largest volume alt-coin market. You want to sell your apples in new york, new york more than Wilmington, NC just on volume. With more store based sales and person-2-person exchanges the value will start to be set at in people’s minds. Outside of BTC no other coin has that right now, that’s right ltc isn’t there yet either.
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The market place for FTC is not there yet. Without this the price is likely to keep falling especially with the huge daily influx of FTC. (~110,000 FTC / day).
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28656” timestamp=“1379708643”]
I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity.
[/quote]FTC has performance advantages. There’s plenty of value there.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“28675” timestamp=“1379723288”]
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28656#msg28656 date=1379708643]
I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity.
[/quote]FTC has performance advantages. There’s plenty of value there.
[/quote]Yes… Less than 1/100th the value of bitcoin according to speculators. If that alone was valuable, FTC would be worth MORE than BTC. So that’s a non-argument in this case. If it’s to be on par with BTC, it must have the same adoption driving its value up.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“28680” timestamp=“1379728822”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=3702.msg28675#msg28675 date=1379723288]
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28656#msg28656 date=1379708643]
I would say rather as a currency, FTC has no commodity value and provides no differentiating technology advantage as of now, thus not a commodity.
[/quote]FTC has performance advantages. There’s plenty of value there.
[/quote]Yes… Less than 1/100th the value of bitcoin according to speculators. If that alone was valuable, FTC would be worth MORE than BTC. So that’s a non-argument in this case. If it’s to be on par with BTC, it must have the same adoption driving its value up.
[/quote]You mean the same mindless zombies who think the system they are gaming is going to be around forever? Those guys wouldn’t know gold from pyrite.
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@unkunku We’ll see when they start chasing us. This community isn’t split into consumer and developer. Everybody here puts time and creativity into it. Who can compete with that?
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“28713” timestamp=“1379767702”]
@unkunku We’ll see when they start chasing us. This community isn’t split into consumer and developer. Everybody here puts time and creativity into it. Who can compete with that?
[/quote]Thank-you @Zero. There are at least 4 of us who work on Feathercoin full time, and I am very proud to work with such an proactive bunch of people.
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28706” timestamp=“1379761991”]
I think you guys really overestimate the value the community has, and it surely isn’t giving FTC the current value, that’s pure market manipulation.Personally I think feathercoin is waay overvalued at current state, simply because buy orders are at or close to whale walls, if it was a balanced market then the whales walls would be way down the buy list.
[/quote]
How much lower would you like the value to go? I suppose you also think LTC is “undervalued”…
All of these crypto coins are manipulated. FTC is not the exception.
I agree with everything Kevlar said. What we need with FTC is a dilution of the market. This can be achieved by merchant adoption, more exchanges trading FTC etc. The more hands a currency changes, the more inherent it’s monetary value becomes.
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.
The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
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[quote name=“birddog” post=“28797” timestamp=“1379809251”]
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
[/quote]If there are no loyal miners, it’s game over for a coin. No one can be top profitable all the time. Loyal miners make transactions reliable. Who wants to use a coin with actual confirmation time for transactions jumping between minutes and hours?
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“28801” timestamp=“1379812890”]
[quote author=birddog link=topic=3702.msg28797#msg28797 date=1379809251]
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
[/quote]If there are no loyal miners, it’s game over for a coin. No one can be top profitable all the time. Loyal miners make transactions reliable. Who wants to use a coin with actual confirmation time for transactions jumping between minutes and hours?
[/quote]The fact is financial services and payment processing should not be these huge profit centres that they have turned in to. You are absolutely right in what you say, if we can figure this out that makes us more powerful that even Bitcoin itself and I feel we are very close.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“28801” timestamp=“1379812890”]
[quote author=birddog link=topic=3702.msg28797#msg28797 date=1379809251]
The way I see it, there are two parts to this equation. The miners and the users. There seems to be more of a focus on the miners in this community than there is the users. As a result, a lot of coins are being made and none of them are being spent.The value of Feathercoin won’t increase by making it an attractive coin to mine. The value will increase by making it an attractive coin to spend.
[/quote]If there are no loyal miners, it’s game over for a coin. No one can be top profitable all the time. Loyal miners make transactions reliable. Who wants to use a coin with actual confirmation time for transactions jumping between minutes and hours?
[/quote]I agree. Loyal miners are an absolute necessity. That is why it is half of the equation.
But for every loyal FTC miner there is, there is another miner that will mine Feathercoin with the sole intention of dumping on the market and exchanging FTC for their preferred currency.
There needs to be a happy medium. Coins need to be mined, transactions need to be processed… but there also needs to be value other than the value that comes from mining FTC in exchange for fiat or other cryptos.
[quote author=chrisj link=topic=3702.msg28805#msg28805 date=1379814774]
The fact is financial services and payment processing should not be these huge profit centres that they have turned in to. You are absolutely right in what you say, if we can figure this out that makes us more powerful that even Bitcoin itself and I feel we are very close.
[/quote]+1
I wouldn’t be here if i didn’t feel Feathercoin was on the right track 8)
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At the end of the day, my favorite thing about FTC is that its actually heating my house right now in central Alaska. Being a dedicated miner is easy when my fuel is technically free - compare that to $4/gal for heating oil :) Even when the price is fluctuating up and down heavily, as long as it covers the electricity bill I’m still way ahead.
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[quote name=“rynomite” post=“28811” timestamp=“1379823107”]
At the end of the day, my favorite thing about FTC is that its actually heating my house right now in central Alaska. Being a dedicated miner is easy when my fuel is technically free - compare that to $4/gal for heating oil :) Even when the price is fluctuating up and down heavily, as long as it covers the electricity bill I’m still way ahead.
[/quote]Ah please put some pictures of your rig on my thread [url=http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=3670.0]http://forum.feathercoin.com/index.php?topic=3670.0[/url]
I want to do the same :D
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28851” timestamp=“1379860074”]
Now to the value of FTC, in my personal belief the value is currently overestimated by around 20-40%, now this is what I BELIEVE, just as some guys believe that a stock share may be overvalued or undervalued with XX%.[/quote]What calculations have led you to this point?
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28851#msg28851 date=1379860074]
Regarding LTC, I do also think that it’s overvalued, there is a huge hype around it ( although it has declines somewhat now ).[/quote]It is probably. Atlantis announced to shut down 2 days ago, and it was the only large Deep Web market accepting Litecoin and not a very successful one. All the others (Silk Road, Black Market Reloaded, Sheep Market, etc.) accept Bitcoin only.
[quote author=unkunku link=topic=3702.msg28851#msg28851 date=1379860074]
Now I will bring up the topic of a potential implementation of Zerocoin, there would in this case be a massive user base as it in fact gives huge advantages in relation to conventional cryptos, and also great merchant adoption, although this merchant adoption would be of a more shady sort.
[/quote]Zerocoin is not enough to bring mass merchant adoption even of a shady kind. It will also play against legal merchants who may not like to be associated with a coin used widely for illegal activities.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“28866” timestamp=“1379868239”]
It will also play against legal merchants who may not like to be associated with a coin used widely for illegal activities.
[/quote]You mean like Bitcoin?
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“28889” timestamp=“1379877840”]
[quote author=ghostlander link=topic=3702.msg28866#msg28866 date=1379868239]
It will also play against legal merchants who may not like to be associated with a coin used widely for illegal activities.
[/quote]You mean like Bitcoin?
[/quote]Bitcoin is above competition currently. They are just rolling without paying much attention to altcoins. They have no need to fight for resources while altcoins have to. Bitcoin is #1 choice for merchants no matter legal or illegal. Feathercoin is fighting for #2 or #3 at least.
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[quote name=“unkunku” post=“28940” timestamp=“1379948997”]
More regarding Zerocoin, if FTC does not implement Zerocoin first, then someone else will, and it’s just soo much easier to be first just as Bitcoin was first in cryptoworld.
[/quote][url=https://github.com/meeh420/anoncoin]https://github.com/meeh420/anoncoin[/url]
[url=http://www.anoncoin.net]http://www.anoncoin.net[/url]They are actively working on it. The price has tripled since the announcement(whether that’s related).
