Leads Eyes Only - What's happening behind closed doors
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[b]** Leads Eyes Only **[/b]
My goal is to always keep the leads informed while not saying anything too quickly and having it bite us in the butt. Here’s what I feel I can comfortably say:
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Bushstar has been talking to ‘prominent’ development types of other coins to discuss possibly using a different crypto algorithm
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A different algorithm will not only bring it’s specific advantages but make it difficult for a pool to simply switch to attacking us
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This will not change anything about the coins you already own and your rigs would still be as lethal as ever
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There are opportunities with controlling the attack surface – Other known devs have ideas for their coins, we might have some cooperation
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This is past the part of discussing, Bushstar is ramping up for testing pieces to this puzzle
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I’ve been working on allocating programming resources from the community.
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I wanted to grab a few to start client development while he focused on the changes to the above. He let me know he needs all the resources, that’s a good sign.
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If you are a developer and not currently working with Bushstar, please drop me a PM
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I’ve been following the debate concerning changing the retarget interval, I am not trying to be dismissive, these items above are essentially the foundation for any other choices
Again, nothing has been set in stone, I wanted to give you guys the update on where things are heading.
[b]What does it all mean?[/b]
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We’re not looking just to patch, we’re working on an actual solution. As GPU miners start moving from Bitcoin to Scrypt based coins, ** I ** believe even Litecoin will has some difficult challenges ahead. While FPGAs targeting Litecoin might not be right around the corner, we do need to plan for it.
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No matter how hard we try to distance ourselves as a Litecoin clone, we constantly get beat up on this statement. If these changes happen, Litecoin will be closer to Bitcoin than we are to Litecoin. We are now a new category.
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You can understand why it’s important to keep these conversations internal. The last thing we need is people pushing for timetables on solutions before they are even tested. It’s also important to protect the conversations of those that want to assist until they are okay with us sharing the information.
[b]Why am I telling you this[/b]
I want everyone to know that progress is being made. The hours Bushstar is spending right now is rather sick… I know, I don’t sleep (much) and we’re touching base at all hours. Although I’m a network script guy with quite a few years of C++ behind me, I’m not a production programmer. I’m leaving those tasks to people like Bushstar. I have 13 years of hardcore IT (3 prior years in the 90s were PR/Level Design/Qscript for a game company) along with ~ 6 years of CIO/CTO organization planning. I feel I have a place as well. While he focuses on the above list, here’s my jam:
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Feathercoin Myths
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Different community projects
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Working on restructuring and pulling in additional community resources
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Coding involved in the FeathercoinLocalExchange locator site
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Short-term/Long-term plan for the leads to evaluate
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My 8 card 7950 mining rig this weekend
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Promotion ramp-up when this is all said and done
[b]As leaders in this community,[/b] I want to make sure you understand what’s happening in the background and ask you:
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Continue to be patient. As we start working with different members in the community, different people have expectations concerning privacy.
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Help maintain the order in the forums
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Help defend against the FUD outside the forums while keeping these plans to ourselves to hash out
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It’s been no secret from Bushstar’s recent interviews, Feathercoin will adjust as needed.
[b]** Personal **[/b]
- I don’t want to be anyone’s shadow. As a Litecoin holder myself, I want them to kick complete @#$@#. With that being said, there’s no reason we can’t also be a leader in this market. We have a unique mix of talent here to make this happen. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows… it’s shovels and dirt. I’m grateful to have the chance to shovel with everyone here, I truly mean it.
John
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wow thats great work justabit and bush, and of coure the rest of the teams! And there’s me just doing the ftc lotto ;__;
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[quote name=“Markus1337” post=“14393” timestamp=“1371163900”]
wow thats great work justabit and bush, and of coure the rest of the teams! And there’s me just doing the ftc lotto ;__;
[/quote]There’s no ‘just’ here… every bit helps. :)
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[quote name=“justabitoftime” post=“14395” timestamp=“1371164099”]
[quote author=Markus1337 link=topic=1789.msg14393#msg14393 date=1371163900]
wow thats great work justabit and bush, and of coure the rest of the teams! And there’s me just doing the ftc lotto ;__;
[/quote]There’s no ‘just’ here… every bit helps. :)
[/quote] I guess, well somehow I have 500+ posts (y) -
And we appreciate being kept in the loop.
I do hope you understand that anything I may say in the public forums which seems critical of the coin is because I want to give you the opportunity to respond to it. We can’t just be a bunch of yes men, we need skeptics to hold feet to the fire, and that way people won’t think it’s just some big ‘ra-ra-fan-club’ we’re operating here.
As the head of mining relations and my ear welded to the pulse of the miners, I can tell you this attack sucked. Hard.
Yeah, you could change to scrypt-jane and make it CPU only (for now). That would help prevent this attack. It would also completely fuck with inflation rates.
I can also tell you that if you change hashing techniques, you may as well just invent another coin and not call it Feathercoin any more, because here’s what will happen:
Some people will go, “Oh this is grand!” and just switch their clients. Other’s will go “No way, this was what I was sold on and this is what I want.” and a hard fork will be created with the old chain continuing on, with BOTH of them being considered valid by it’s supporters.
This will cause MASSIVE confusion, not to mention some serious spending issues since coins mined/received on the old chain can now be spent twice: Once on the old chain which you want people to abandon, and once on the new chain which you want people to switch to. And both will be valid, depending on which client your running… Feathercoin-OG, or the new and improved Feathercoin.
Changing the hashing algorithm isn’t like changing the difficulty re-target rate, because people can just continue on their merry way with the old one if they choose to; Blocks mined using the old hashing style will be accepted in the old client, and ones on the new one will be rejected. Same thing on the new client with old style blocks. There will just be a shit-ton of chatter on the network that get’s thrown out by either client.
I don’t yet see how this is a viable option, but I’m listening.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“14399” timestamp=“1371164945”]
And we appreciate being kept in the loop.I do hope you understand that anything I may say in the public forums which seems critical of the coin is because I want to give you the opportunity to respond to it. We can’t just be a bunch of yes men, we need skeptics to hold feet to the fire, and that way people won’t think it’s just some big ‘ra-ra-fan-club’ we’re operating here.
As the head of mining relations and my ear welded to the pulse of the miners, I can tell you this attack sucked. Hard.
Yeah, you could change to scrypt-jane and make it CPU only (for now). That would help prevent this attack. It would also completely fuck with inflation rates.
I can also tell you that if you change hashing techniques, you may as well just invent another coin and not call it Feathercoin any more, because here’s what will happen:
Some people will go, “Oh this is grand!” and just switch their clients. Other’s will go “No way, this was what I was sold on and this is what I want.” and a hard fork will be created with the old chain continuing on, with BOTH of them being considered valid by it’s supporters.
This will cause MASSIVE confusion, not to mention some serious spending issues since coins mined/received on the old chain can now be spent twice: Once on the old chain which you want people to abandon, and once on the new chain which you want people to switch to. And both will be valid, depending on which client your running… Feathercoin-OG, or the new and improved Feathercoin.
Changing the hashing algorithm isn’t like changing the difficulty re-target rate, because people can just continue on their merry way with the old one if they choose to; Blocks mined using the old hashing style will be accepted in the old client, and ones on the new one will be rejected. Same thing on the new client with old style blocks. There will just be a shit-ton of chatter on the network that get’s thrown out by either client.
I don’t yet see how this is a viable option, but I’m listening.
[/quote]Quick thoughts (finishing up a project that actually pays the bills… FTC time is expensive hehe)
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Not interested in a CPU only coin
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Appreciate everything you do… group think sucks
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It’s not just the algo, there’s other serious code changes
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[b]From a branding background, we disagree about a new coin.[/b] I get it, in the geek community… all this matters. To other groups (such as the Libertarian audience we reached out to my radio interview) , what happens behind the scenes won’t matter to them. The branding is everything. I’ve spent a lot of time from day 1 getting the name out (as have others).
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Concerning double chains, there are coin developers that are looking for solutions to that topic. Now, we’re stepping outside my comfort zone.
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In terms of retargeting, I like the idea of an IPS style approach that detects behavior and makes corrections. I’ve come to believe that topic is almost like religion in the community.
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Bottom line: This is no golden solution, I feel that’s the real beauty of alt coins. We are able to adjust much quicker than a project like Bitcoin.
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If we get stuck with just crypto community supporters, I’m seriously wasting my time.[/b] My background is geek, my profession is geek, my target is joe user. Literally kill me now if a year from now the only people interested in Feathercoin is someone that thinks yelling ‘chicken’ in trollbox is still funny. I want my mom using it… I want the band down the road using it, I want the person that has 0 understanding of crypto using it.
That’s my vision, it doesn’t have to be everyone’s for us to prosper.
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[quote name=“justabitoftime” post=“14389” timestamp=“1371163063”]
- A different algorithm will not only bring it’s specific advantages but make it difficult for a pool to simply switch to attacking us
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I really don’t believe this was done by a pool just simply switching over, I believe this was done by a pool purposely set up and just switching ON for the sole purpose to attack, and from non Litecoin miners too < Although I would be very happy to be proved wrong on this. 8)
- A different algorithm will not only bring it’s specific advantages but make it difficult for a pool to simply switch to attacking us
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“14411” timestamp=“1371166320”]
[quote author=justabitoftime link=topic=1789.msg14389#msg14389 date=1371163063]- A different algorithm will not only bring it’s specific advantages but make it difficult for a pool to simply switch to attacking us
[/quote]
I really don’t believe this was done by a pool just simply switching over, I believe this was done by a pool purposely set up and just switching ON for the sole purpose to attack, and from non Litecoin miners too < Although I would be very happy to be proved wrong on this. 8)
[/quote]I never said that. :) I simply said that would prevent that from happening.
- A different algorithm will not only bring it’s specific advantages but make it difficult for a pool to simply switch to attacking us
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Maybe someone has a great solution and they’ll produce a coin with the right combination of ideas. Until then, all we can do is keep hashing out ideas and see where the chips fall.
Being Litecoin’s redheaded stepchild that doesn’t even care enough to take us for icecream on the weekends is one thing I’m personally not interesting in doing anymore. That’s a personal decision and not one influencing whatever Bushstar decides to do.
Maybe Bush will go this route, maybe he’ll decide to try something else.
- As a Feathercoin supporter, I’m here until the end.
- As a Feathercoin projects guy, I’m with you guys as long as I can justify the time and interest pushing it forward.
[b] ** Any one of you could step up and handle what I do here… I’m not the least bit concerned with Feathercoin’s future **[/b].
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I’ve stuck by Bush (& you :) ) this long and I’m happy to continue, I agree about Feathercoin’s branded image, and I suppose there is no cyrpto mould for us to break as it’s all an experiment anyway! 8)
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Redheaded step children don’t have to play by the rules.
If it’s to be an experimental coin, let’s experiment. I’m fine with that, so long as we don’t go full retard and kill the coin like so many others have.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“14435” timestamp=“1371168624”]
Redheaded step children don’t have to play by the rules.If it’s to be an experimental coin, let’s experiment. I’m fine with that, so long as we don’t go full retard and kill the coin like so many others have.
[/quote]I want to divorce our parents. :)
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[quote name=“wesphily” post=“14463” timestamp=“1371171768”]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=1789.msg14435#msg14435 date=1371168624]
Redheaded step children don’t have to play by the rules.If it’s to be an experimental coin, let’s experiment. I’m fine with that, so long as we don’t go full retard and kill the coin like so many others have.
[/quote]you can never go full retard!
[/quote]Oh I dunno… I think a few are attempting it the trollbox.
Good work bush/justabit. We appreciate the hours you guys do but sometimes you just need to switch off. Might I suggest a day or 2 of proper rest, take the wife out (better still, someone else’s wife ;) ) and don’t even login to your machines. You deserve it! We can keep this place going until you return. Fresh heads on Monday.
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Agreed with nut2, a day or 2 off will be good for you guys :D
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This article discusses what would happen if Bitcoin underwent an intentional hard fork.
http://www.thegenesisblock.com/go-fork-yourself-life-after-a-bitcoin-hard-fork/
While I don’t agree with all his conclusions, specifically the one about mining fees sustaining the network, some of the conclusions are undeniable, and wholly applicable to this situation.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“14983” timestamp=“1371239470”]
This article discusses what would happen if Bitcoin underwent an intentional hard fork.http://www.thegenesisblock.com/go-fork-yourself-life-after-a-bitcoin-hard-fork/
While I don’t agree with all his conclusions, specifically the one about mining fees sustaining the network, some of the conclusions are undeniable, and wholly applicable to this situation.
[/quote]Read it before, good read… definitely something everyone here should read. I would argue that the models are quite a bit different considering the scope. Bitcoin so large, their hard fork would effect payments with merchants (v1 and v2). For us, we need to start making decisions while we’re small enough to bounce back. Since our value is largely determined by market confidence (certainly not currency acceptance), how we went about it would make all the difference. I could be wrong, just how I’m reading it.
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Outside of the box:
We could say we are currently the alt-chain of Litecoin (FTC=LTC2) and that we have already done what Bitcoin is proposing.[quote]If one chain eventually won, the alt coins would not disappear, however their use would wane and they would eventually become worthless.[/quote]
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“15122” timestamp=“1371260658”]
Outside of the box:
We could say we are currently the alt-chain of Litecoin (FTC=LTC2) and that we have already done what Bitcoin is proposing.[quote]If one chain eventually won, the alt coins would not disappear, however their use would wane and they would eventually become worthless.[/quote]
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^ I thought you had done another video then :D
I agree we are a young coin we do not essentially have the same logistical nightmare that Bitcoin faces - Ie major merchant impact, major back pocket impact, major ASICS investment impact, the list goes on.
It’s basically far easier for our man to leave…