WDC-FTC joint projects
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I see a kind of cognitive dissonance here. The WDC team wants to cooperate with us, but they don’t want anything we have or do currently. What’s the point to cooperate with someone who cannot deliver anything interesting even if it’s a step in a wrong direction?
Is there anything interesting you can provide? A rebranded Qt GUI isn’t interesting, sorry. It doesn’t improve functionality or add any. If you speak of development, why haven’t you invited your developers here to speak without a middleman?
Hi ! thanks for your answer.
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We don’t want anything you have now, that is the reason i wanted to know what is the plan for this year (which still i don’t have a good idea), as Kevlar correctly pointed out, we would be interested if FTC rebase their wallet to lastest (not interim) BTC version, i am sure we could find a lot of interesting things in the pipeline if we somehow could have some access to it.
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i will try to summarize our dev plan :
2.1) Decouple UI interfaces completely from core deamon, these UI will be built in a scripted language so people won’t need to recompile trying to change the font, color , etc,
There are 3 interesting consequences of this part :
a) UI improvements will progress a lot faster than core (as it should ) with the help of people that has no experience with crypto, c++ or qt -
b) It will start an unified source code tree for diverse form factors : tablets, desktops, hdpi, etc which could share most of core programming and only the UI would change ( as Ubuntu or Windows are trying to do )
c) a theme engine will be born
2.2) Making the wallet 100 % modular
User modules could be built in an scripted language too, abstracting and simplfying a lot of issues related to crypto
For example making a beautiful ticker for your wallet will take just 10 lines of scripted code without the need of recompiling anything or crypto related topics, just some common sense
The idea here is to recruit a lot of passive potential man work that know java script but doesnt have the time to learn c++ or crypto related algorithms, and overall feel intimidated with the learning curve that programming directly in the wallet implies now ; making our wallet very attractive to new developers
Every module could be loaded runtime.
Official modules have a hash so when the software starts, it will compare this hashes with the original ones to assure that no single dot was changed. ( actually we can have this service now with our automatic download tool - gauss)
Obviously security concerns should be addressed including making a very secure sand box .
The point being : most coins are trying to improve with core changes ( pow - pos) and searching the holy grail ( a perfect system ASIC ‘resistant’ - and inmune to 51 % attacks ), in our view core technology is good enough and we use BTC and LTC growth as basis for this claim,… but if against odds some one finds this holy grail our daemon isolation will make this migration easier, the currently working download system could make a strong push for people to update in case a hard fork is required in the event we need to change PoW - PoS in the future. All this gives us the confidence to innovate in areas not explored yet which we believe are very important for the user experience.
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It doesn’t take much knowledge to write a shell script for something like awk to replace all Xcoin instances with Ycoin ones. Copy-paste the graphics, apply a core patch for coin specific code and you’re ready to go. No need to make things even more complicated. The current code base is bloated already.
Have you got any interesting developments in the core going? As I’ve said previously, any UI tweaks aren’t really appealing.
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It doesn’t take much knowledge to write a shell script for something like awk to replace all Xcoin instances with Ycoin ones. Copy-paste the graphics, apply a core patch for coin specific code and you’re ready to go. No need to make things even more complicated. The current code base is bloated already.
Have you got any interesting developments in the core going? As I’ve said previously, any UI tweaks aren’t really appealing.
Of course it is bloated thats the whole point , do you really expect a graphic designer will run an awk script to change the icons (i know it doesnt work this way its just an example for complexity) ? generally speaking usability teams can not depend on core progress ; thats the mantra which modern software companies are working on (it is not our invention ) and creating an unified source code for all form factors it is not (technically speaking) just an UI tweak. Whats more trying to convince a business to accept your coin and answer to their manager information requirements : “its easy to make an awk script” is a lot harder than convincing them saying : “you just need your web dev type 5 lines of code to have that info in a friendly in wallet graphical way”.
As i say, the only core progress we are interested now is reabasing our core wallet which we will do with or without cooperation with another coin. For us trying to change pow and pos is a waste of time and screw those who have bought the hardware to support the net. Of course if someone does a completely brilliant transformation we will adopt it, but we won’t spend countless hours trying to discover the holy grail ourselves.
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About hard anonymous transactions : we want business to accept our coin, we will do it if regulation approves this formaly ( we value pragmatism over idealism )
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About x,y,z Incorporations to the blockchain: thats a broader subject, but trying to bloat the chain with transactions that the network itself doesn’t have the ‘knowledge’ ( for example network know coins because it know its structure and can mine them, the same can not be said about cell phones for example if you are trying to incorporate a market shop directly in the chain)is a mistake in our view; we prefer a completely slim, secure chain that does what has to do in the best way possible other wise a wide range of new attacks are possible. Of course scalability issues aren’t resolved either.
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PD: i am pretty sure that business in general and users don’t really care about scrypt or neo scrypt, they just expect core to function well thats it, to them all core progress is (and should be ) transparent so we will leech progress from others so our users can directly ‘see’ our progress very fast
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I see you are interested in getting your code rebased. That’s the primary reason for this talk. When you wanted v0.8 with the ACP a year ago, it was Bushstar who did the job for a bounty and I made the final overnight fix to make it work. Why don’t you hire someone again if there are no problems with investors on your side?
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i wasn’t there when that happened, although kevin speaks very good about that relationship and from peter himself, thats the reason i chosed this forum first, there was an history in cooperation; very sad peter is not here anymore
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dev team was not completely reformulated at that time
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i mention code rebase because that’s the only thing i am seeign right now that it would be interesting for us (again i am not finding any plan from any dev), this doesnt mean that we are not able to do it ourselves is necessary
Or as kevlar put it, make a pull request from your work
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as many of us have a bussiness background ( in fact this is the reason we were able to change a lot of policies very fast) we would like to make investments were we recover our money (sustainability)
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our team is solid but small. We would like that changes in the block chain being more thouroughly tested so sharing the QA would be nice ( again not a necessity, just a wish)
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Also, a friend of mine asked me to clarify something that it seems it can generate confussion.
We all are volunteers of course, we don’t impose a time schedule to devs, it’s the other way around we ask them to make a commitment about what they can do with the time they have available to invest.
for example is some one says, “i have one hour monthly to spare to the project” we say “great ! then maybe you can help us making the splash screen on the next month!” , so if he accepts and makes this commitment we put pressure on his deadline (not ours).
Of course we will see in the comming months if this works or not.
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Another gem from Kevlar I’m stealing.
[Kevlar]
This is exactly the behavior I referred to that has been proven to be detrimental to open source development.
FTC started this way.
It resulted in people burning out before they did any work at all.
That’s exactly the wrong way of including a voulenteer, treating them as an equal and encouraging collaboration.
That’s exactly the wrong way of including a voulenteer, treating them as an equal and encouraging collaboration.
That’s NOT how you start a movement.[/kevlar]
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Another gem from Kevlar I’m stealing.
[Kevlar]
This is exactly the behavior I referred to that has been proven to be detrimental to open source development.
FTC started this way.
It resulted in people burning out before they did any work at all.
That’s exactly the wrong way of including a voulenteer, treating them as an equal and encouraging collaboration.
That’s exactly the wrong way of including a voulenteer, treating them as an equal and encouraging collaboration.
That’s NOT how you start a movement.[/kevlar]
:)
I am starting to think that your definition of ‘detrimental to open source’ is : “Those who don’t bow under thy majesty …”
I don’t know what happened to Peter and others but i suspect it is an easy guess. Does being like that makes you feel tough ? Do you really know what being strong means ? it means that you are capable of making your comrades feel STRONGER not WEAKER even when you *think* you are right and they are wrong … to lend a hand instead of a fist to those who just want to help, thats how true alliances are forged, when true loyalties are born …
Too easy to taunt, too easy to lose control, so full of yourself, almost incapable of acquiring value from others
All people have something valuable to offer: knowledge, coding skills, advice, opinions,. ideas, optimism, serenity, empathy … and it is our duty to make the best of it, because we will need every drop of it in the future; i mean what do you think will happen in a couple of years when crypto really starts being mainstream and financial institutions begins to spend millions of dollars trying to make the rest of the world believe we are the worst kind of parasites in existence ? will your supporters feel safe behind your github repository [‘Powering cloud computing’] ??? . After that when governments, backed by private interests, start cracking the companies that are using crypto … will they feel confident because of your 2 new [‘in production use’] languages ??? And if by a miracle we go through that phase and credit card companies start investing billions of dollars trying to stop crypto at all costs … should the community feel safe with you ‘championing’ it with your paycheck in one hand and your physics engine [ © ] on the other ???
Alpha male character is only useful when you need to survive among a pack of dogs.
Personally i think you could be an incredible good asset to the community, but until you understand what that word really means you are kind of useless, well maybe some people will still back you, but that’s probably because they developed some form of stockholm syndrome.
We need to change the way we think, the way we act, the assets we consider valuable
I will spare you a rage induced heart attack because i will stop posting in this forum, at least for now,… some wounds need to be healed before … A defensive stance is not useful for any one to make progress
Be strong friends… Always, be truly strong
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If I’m going to be misrepresented, I’m going to respond:
> I am starting to think that your definition of ‘detrimental to open source’ is : “Those who don’t bow under thy majesty …”
No, detrimental to open source means trying to make it like a catheral, and not embracing the bazzaar model.
> I don’t know what happened to Peter and others but i suspect it is an easy guess.
Ok, what’s your guess?
> Does being like that makes you feel tough ?
Being like what? I never thought I was tough. I’m quite failable in fact.
> Do you really know what being strong means ?
Yes, it means you posess power.
> it means that you are capable of making your comrades feel STRONGER not WEAKER even when you *think* you are right and they are wrong
No, that’s what being benevolent means. Look it up.
> to lend a hand instead of a fist to those who just want to help,
No, that’s compassion, charity, and care.
> thats how true alliances are forged, when true loyalties are born …
No, that’s how people help one another. Alliances are forged when ethos are aligned. Your ethos is entirely incompatitable with the rest of the open source world’s.
> Too easy to taunt, too easy to lose control, so full of yourself, almost incapable of acquiring value from others
Is that an ad hominin attack on me? Say of my character what you will, the truth in my words remains intact.
> All people have something valuable to offer: knowledge, coding skills, advice, opinions,. ideas, optimism, serenity, empathy … and it is our duty to make the best of it, because we will need every drop of it in the future;
I agree with those values. I disagree with your attempt to extort it for your own selfish gain.
> i mean what do you think will happen in a couple of years when crypto really starts being mainstream and financial institutions begins to spend millions of dollars trying to make the rest of the world believe we are the worst kind of parasites in existence ?
I think the government’s ability to control our wealth will be lessened.
> will your supporters feel safe behind your github repository [‘Powering cloud computing’] ??? .
Supporters? I didn’t know I had supporters. Last I checked, I have technology, and the ability to make more. I don’t need supporters. I have no idea why they would feel safe behind a github repository. Satoshi has the same legacy: He wasn’t known for making friends and massaging their feelings, he was known for his brilliant application of technology. So have I been, and so shall I be. I’d much rather build technology which will safeguard millions of generations’s privacy to come rather than safeguard your pathetic illusions of grandeur. That’s not my role, and I won’t apologize for it.
> After that when governments, backed by private interests, start cracking the companies that are using crypto … will they feel confident because of your 2 new [‘in production use’] languages ???
If they did then someone told them a really horrible lie, but who would do such an awful thing?
> And if by a miracle we go through that phase and credit card companies start investing billions of dollars trying to stop crypto at all costs … should the community feel safe with you ‘championing’ it with your paycheck in one hand and your physics engine [ © ] on the other ???
No they should feel safe with the blockchain being secured by the laws of physics. I’m not sure what my paycheck or my personal projects have to do with anything related to crypto security.
> Alpha male character is only useful when you need to survive among a pack of dogs.
Alpha male characters are a bad stereotype. So are idiots with business backgrounds trying to organize an open source software project when they don’t have the first clue what they’re doing.
> Personally i think you could be an incredible good asset to the community, but until you understand what that word really means you are kind of useless, well maybe some people will still back you, but that’s probably because they developed some form of stockholm syndrome.
Stockholm syndrome requires that I first hold them hostage. It also assumes that technology is somehow tied to the creator, and that creators of technology are useless. None of these things bear any resemblance to reality.
> We need to change the way we think, the way we act, the assets we consider valuable
That should go without saying by now…
> I will spare you a rage induced heart attack because i will stop posting in this forum, at least for now,… some wounds need to be healed before … A defensive stance is not useful for any one to make progress
It’s unfortunate you missed the message entirely. The correct approach was dancing with us, and learning how to work with the rest of the open source world, not rage quitting.
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Again there are lot of open source projects that have milestones and deadlines, it is not taboo nor black arts it works for some of them (tip: google is your friend)
Anyway the point is that how we organize ourselves is our business period, may work or may not, but you don’t have anything to do with it, if you were not comfortable with the word deadline well you could just said that in one sentence and surely we could try to sort it out someway sparing me of useless long read.
I am amused that even i almost explicitely warned not to take the bait you took it :
"too easy to taunt … ", i throw the meat i dare you to go after it, and you go after the bait, invalidating your melodramatic long goodbye post which ironically is probably the best contribution you are able to make to this community for now.
Also it’s interesting to read your inhability to process simple metaphors and analogies, no wonder why you are so proud of your dancing metaphor, answering with pseudo rationality resemblant to a cheap manga version of Dr. House
You tried to to keep your self control though , good work ! it’s a start …
“The correct approach was dancing with us, and learning how to work with the rest of the open source world, not rage quitting”
i never lose control nor take it personally (even when it is)
My colleagues and i feel a lot of respect to ghostlander, peter, lizhi even if we do not agree with some development made, and we will probably fuck up many times because nobody really knows what’s the final shape successful crypto will have so what ?. i will try to contact them in the comming months when we have something concrete to show, that’s it. I hope that by then you move with ‘your teachings’ elsewere as you said you would.
So here we go again with another chunk of meat :
“too easy to taunt …” (will you take the bait again ? or we can end this here )
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Again there a lot of open source projects that have milestones and deadlines, it is not taboo or black arts it works for some of them (tip: google is your friend)
Anyway the point is that how we organize oruselves is our business period, may work or may not, but you don’t have anything to do with it, if you were not comfortable with the word deadline well you could just said that in one sentence and surely we could try to sort it out someway and sparing me of useless long reading.
I am amused that even i almost explicitely warned not to take the bait you took it :
"too easy to taunt … ", i throw the meat i dare you to go after it, and you go after the bait, invalidating your melodramatic long goodbye post which ironacally is probably the best contribution you are able to make to this community for now.
Also it’s interesting to see you inhability to process simple metaphors and analogies, no wonder why you are so proud of you dancing metaphor, answering with pseudo rationality resemblant to a cheap chinese version of Dr. House
You tried to to keep your self control though , good work ! it’s a start …
“The correct approach was dancing with us, and learning how to work with the rest of the open source world, not rage quitting”
i never lose control nor take it personally (even when it is)
My colleagues and i feel a lot of respect to ghostlander, peter, lizhi even if we do not agree with some development made, so we will probably fuck up many times because nobody really knows what’s the final shape successful crypto will have, so i will try to contact them in the comming months when we have something concrete to show, that’s it. I hope that by then you move with ‘your teachings’ else were as you said you would.
So here we go again with another chunk of meat :
“too easy to taunt …” (will you take the bait again ? or we can end this here )
Fighting him is the first phase
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I can assure you, from my experience, Peter,Wellenreiter, Ghostalander, Ruthie, myself and others did do a massive amount of work to get us to where we are, wherever that is…
