Serious issues with feathercoin and my suggestion
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[quote name=“Undone” post=“54438” timestamp=“1390507503”]
[quote author=estrabd link=topic=7152.msg54433#msg54433 date=1390505741]
Difficulty crept way down the other day, now it is inching upwards. That is how the supply is throttled - it is not by “reducing the number of coins”.[/quote]No, not really. The block reward is the same, every block. The mining difficulty does not change the “supply.”
[/quote]What I mean is that it reduces the frequency at which blocks are found - at least this is my understanding. If I am wrong, please correct me. Thank you.
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[quote name=“estrabd” post=“54452” timestamp=“1390510528”]
[quote author=Undone link=topic=7152.msg54438#msg54438 date=1390507503]
[quote author=estrabd link=topic=7152.msg54433#msg54433 date=1390505741]
Difficulty crept way down the other day, now it is inching upwards. That is how the supply is throttled - it is not by “reducing the number of coins”.[/quote]No, not really. The block reward is the same, every block. The mining difficulty does not change the “supply.”
[/quote][b]What I mean is that it reduces the frequency at which blocks are found[/b] - at least this is my understanding. If I am wrong, please correct me. Thank you.
[/quote]No, the bolded is not correct. It merely reduces your odds as a miner of solving the block.
Feathercoin has a block target of 2.5 minutes. This means that the network expects a block to be solved in exactly 2.5 minutes. As the network hashrate goes up or down due to more/less mining being done on the network as a whole, the difficulty level is recalculated (essentially) every 126 blocks. At which time, the difficulty is either raised or lowered so that the target time for block solution is back to 2.5 minutes.
Thus, as a function of average, blocks are solved (or as you phrased it, found) essentially every 2.5 minutes, at a block reward of 200 coins per block. Now, it is true that the block reward will halve every 840,000 blocks. But that won’t happen for roughly another 685,000 blocks. :)
**Edit** To maybe speak more plainly to your original intent though, what an increase in difficulty means for a miner [i]who hasn’t increased or decreased his own personal hashrate[/i] is that you earn less coins per day (when mining in a pool - with solo mining, you also statistically will earn less coins also because your odds of block solution go down).
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[quote name=“motherlode1” post=“54416” timestamp=“1390504201”]
I agree with you for the most part. Mining is not killing FTC its the difficulty. Our difficulty is too low.[/quote]Hey let me show you something.
Point to the FTC on the chart:
https://www.multipool.us/multiport_stats.php
You know the last time I saw FTC on that chart?
November 29th 2013 at 1:35pm.
FWIW, multipool does it’s switching based on what coin is easiest to mine at that current moment. That it hasn’t even made an appearance for a few minutes in nearly two months on the switch means it’s not even in the 5 easiest coins to mine. And that’s not of all the altcoins, that’s the ones with the highest network hashrate.
FTC is not too easy to mine. If it was, I’d be on it right now.
[quote]It is easy to mine 10 to 20 FTC within a few days on a mid level to an entry level system but beyond that given our current value it is easier to buy it with fiat as well. This means that people who want to get in the world of crypto usually buy a few FTC for experimenting and see how the experience is and then they eventually move on to their preferred coin.[/quote]
No, the people that are arbitrage trading with mass quantities of coin are doing it with DOGE. And there’s two camps to DOGE. People flooding the exchanges with coins in order to convert to BTC and from there to whatever else, and people buying them for their stashes and giving 10-30% of their holdings away. It’s really weird. But the point is, the people without dedicated rigs are neither of these groups in regards to your observation of FTC users. If they’re mining 20FTC and it takes a week, they’re not rushing to an exchange in order to make $6 after paying $10 in power. They’re not ruining the market at all because they’re not a participant in it, they’re looking at these coins like “omg next BTC” and just holding them.
[quote]I think we need to start educating people on how to handle crypto currencies properly.[/quote]
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[quote name=“HopeStillFlies” post=“54457” timestamp=“1390512714”]
FWIW, multipool does it’s switching based on what coin is easiest to mine at that current moment. That it hasn’t even made an appearance for a few minutes in nearly two months on the switch means it’s not even in the 5 easiest coins to mine. And that’s not of all the altcoins, that’s the ones with the highest network hashrate.[/quote]No, I don’t believe that’s accurate. At multipool.us, they have a calculation that combines the factor of “how many coins can be mined” (meaning hashrate…just to make a long story short) and the trading value at that very moment of the coin. I believe that is how they calculate the figure they call “profitability” in their charts.
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[quote name=“Undone” post=“54463” timestamp=“1390515420”]
[quote author=HopeStillFlies link=topic=7152.msg54457#msg54457 date=1390512714]
FWIW, multipool does it’s switching based on what coin is easiest to mine at that current moment. That it hasn’t even made an appearance for a few minutes in nearly two months on the switch means it’s not even in the 5 easiest coins to mine. And that’s not of all the altcoins, that’s the ones with the highest network hashrate.[/quote]No, I don’t believe that’s accurate. At multipool.us, they have a calculation that combines the factor of “how many coins can be mined” (meaning hashrate…just to make a long story short) and the trading value at that very moment of the coin. I believe that is how they calculate the figure they call “profitability” in their charts.
[/quote]That’s correct. It’s not just hashrate and trading value… it’s more like (Price per coin * number of coins per block) / difficulty. The block generation size has to be accounted for too.
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Love this thread guys. Looks like its buy FTC time again by the sounds of this discussion. :)
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If anyone ever wonders, where does all the money come from that I[insert your name] have made these past few months, look no further than the OP.
OP don’t bother buying feathercoin next time around just wire your cash directly to me, (is that too nasty, I really don’t care, every few months you see a few jump ship like the OP and then cry a little later, thank you for your money OP)
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[quote name=“Pyxis” post=“54490” timestamp=“1390521713”]
If anyone ever wonders, where does all the money come from that I[insert your name] have made these past few months, look no further than the OP.OP don’t bother buying feathercoin next time around just wire your cash directly to me, (is that too nasty, I really don’t care, every few months you see a few jump ship like the OP and then cry a little later, thank you for your money OP)
[/quote]A VERY astute observation! Thank you for reminding us that for every dollar the OP lost, someone else made that dollar. It’s a zero-sum game, and just listening to one side of the argument (the guy who traded poorly) won’t help you to understand the entire game (how trade profitably).
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Love this thread x 2.
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Nice discussion. I’m not wild about the potential float or O/S (or O/C in this case) but that’s a narrow-minded view I guess. What IS a supply number when there’s no applicable, true ‘demand’ defined just yet? Uses are abound…
FTC’s future, take your pick - won’t take much (considering the bright side of these phenomenons as it pertains to our growth):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowball_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_feedback
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapotis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_condensationFTC is much more than a coin. And it’s not a currency, hence the current market perception. FTC is the newest commodity called “Innovation.” And naturally there is doubt attached to that though this perceived risk can be mitigated. All it takes is one proprietary hedge or add-on…whether this applies to current FTC coins in circulation or those not yet mined…
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The lack of knowledge on this board is astounding, most of the posters are just completely wrong and I can’t even begin to formulate an argument against them. Difficulty has nothing to do with the supply, and price has no impact on difficulty. FTC is a fork of BTC, so there is plenty of information already available for you to educate yourselves, there is no excuse for not understanding how the system works, and even less of an excuse for spreading false information.
To those of you posting about how difficulty throttles the supply of FTC and how price affects the difficulty/supply, please do your research. I’m serious, it’s your money so at least do some research. And to those of you listening to these people and concluding now is the best time to buy, I suggest the same.
Won’t take you more than 20 minutes to permanently understand how you are investing your money…
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty
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[quote name=“ironstove” post=“54544” timestamp=“1390546921”]
The lack of knowledge on this board is astounding, most of the posters are just completely wrong and I can’t even begin to formulate an argument against them. Difficulty has nothing to do with the supply, and price has no impact on difficulty. FTC is a fork of BTC, so there is plenty of information already available for you to educate yourselves, there is no excuse for not understanding how the system works, and even less of an excuse for spreading false information.To those of you posting about how difficulty throttles the supply of FTC and how price affects the difficulty/supply, please do your research. I’m serious, it’s your money so at least do some research. And to those of you listening to these people and concluding now is the best time to buy, I suggest the same.
Won’t take you more than 20 minutes to permanently understand how you are investing your money…
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Target
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining
[/quote]Could you please explain how difficulty has nothing to with the supply. Because if I read what you wrote correctly and my understanding of difficulty is correct then I assume that if the difficulty is low then I can get more FTC a day but if it is high then I get less FTC a day and this is inversely proportional to the network hash rate. I mean then half the community is wrong when they get excited that the difficulty is falling and they keep throwing the phrase “I am going to mine big chunks because the difficulty went down”.If I have made a mistake in understanding what you wrote, please enlighten me.
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[quote name=“motherlode1” post=“54547” timestamp=“1390547993”]
[quote author=ironstove link=topic=7152.msg54544#msg54544 date=1390546921]
The lack of knowledge on this board is astounding, most of the posters are just completely wrong and I can’t even begin to formulate an argument against them. Difficulty has nothing to do with the supply, and price has no impact on difficulty. FTC is a fork of BTC, so there is plenty of information already available for you to educate yourselves, there is no excuse for not understanding how the system works, and even less of an excuse for spreading false information.To those of you posting about how difficulty throttles the supply of FTC and how price affects the difficulty/supply, please do your research. I’m serious, it’s your money so at least do some research. And to those of you listening to these people and concluding now is the best time to buy, I suggest the same.
Won’t take you more than 20 minutes to permanently understand how you are investing your money…
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Target
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining
[/quote]Could you please explain how difficulty has nothing to with the supply. Because if I read what you wrote correctly and my understanding of difficulty is correct then I assume that if the difficulty is low then I can get more FTC a day but if it is high then I get less FTC a day and this is inversely proportional to the network hash rate. I mean then half the community is wrong when they get excited that the difficulty is falling and they keep throwing the phrase “I am going to mine big chunks because the difficulty went down”.If I have made a mistake in understanding what you wrote, please enlighten me.
[/quote]It’s very simple:
Supply is constant.
Difficulty is variable. It varies in order to keep the supply constant. When the number of coins generated increases, difficulty increases, and the supply slows down. When the hash power decreases, the coin generation rate decreases, and difficulty comes down, allowing more coins to be generated. The net effect is that over any reasonable time period, the average generation rate doesn’t vary very much, and the coin generation rate is entirely predictable, and quite steady regardless of what the hash power available is.
Then, every 4 years, the block reward halves. This means that the coin is deflationary, because over time, less and less of it will come into existence at that steady rate, until one year there will be no more coins generated. Because the supply rate is steady, this can be tied to a date in the future with a good amount of certainty. The newsletter lists the stat “10 days behind expected generation rate” or something like that, which IS the measure of the variance in that difficulty adjustment: we’re 10 days slower than we should be because in the past, difficulty didn’t adjust often, but now it does. As a result, if the algorithm works right, we should ALWAYS be 10 days behind.
Therefore, difficulty has nothing to do with supply. Supply doesn’t change.
You are correct, however, that your share will be proportionately bigger on a coin with lower difficulty, as you will find a larger proportion of blocks.
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[quote name=“Kirjokansi” post=“54562” timestamp=“1390552269”]
[quote author=motherlode1 link=topic=7152.msg54547#msg54547 date=1390547993]Could you please explain how difficulty has nothing to with the supply. Because if I read what you wrote correctly and my understanding of difficulty is correct then I assume that if the difficulty is low then I can get more FTC a day but if it is high then I get less FTC a day and this is inversely proportional to the network hash rate. I mean then half the community is wrong when they get excited that the difficulty is falling and they keep throwing the phrase “I am going to mine big chunks because the difficulty went down”.If I have made a mistake in understanding what you wrote, please enlighten me.
[/quote]As I understand it the amount of coins released / time is (roughly) always the same. No matter how high or low the difficulty is. Fewer miners -> larger shares / miner. So yes you get more FTC when the difficulty is low, but there’s no more FTC mined as a whole.
[/quote]
That is correct. There will be a new block with 200 FTE about every 2.5 minutes and the difficulty is adjusted every X number of blocks to realign the discovery of new blocks to that time.
If more hashing power is available to generate new blocks, the time between two blocks decreases and as a result the difficulty will increase to come beck to the 2.5 minutes time frame between two blocks.
