Who is John Galt?
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John Galt and friends start hijacking trucks. Atlas Shrugged is a joke. It claims that the workers didn’t build anything, but rather the investors and owners did the building. Say what you want about centralization, I might agree with you. But investors and owners are in fact the government of the factory. A little hypocritical in my book. THEY ARE NOT PRODUCERS. This idea that they are producers is the biggest lie of the 19th and 20th centuries and that is what Atlas Shrugged promotes.
Money is a tool that became a principle.
The principle became a weapon.
The weapon became a curse.
Now it owns us.Atlas Shrugged promotes corporate collectivism. Look at the phrase impotent savages: It refers to the average person.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47859” timestamp=“1388172395”]
A little hypocritical in my book. THEY ARE NOT PRODUCERS. This idea that they are producers is the biggest lie of the 19th and 20th centuries and that is what Atlas Shrugged promotes.
[/quote]I was set to do a mini rant…and then found that you already said it. Well stated, Good Sir.
Feathercoin and crypto currencies actually empower the very people that Ayn Rand dehumanizes…so poor analogy jti8899 though I suspect well intentioned.
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[quote name=“MemoryShock” post=“47883” timestamp=“1388176487”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6264.msg47859#msg47859 date=1388172395]
A little hypocritical in my book. THEY ARE NOT PRODUCERS. This idea that they are producers is the biggest lie of the 19th and 20th centuries and that is what Atlas Shrugged promotes.
[/quote]I was set to do a mini rant…and then found that you already said it. Well stated, Good Sir.
Feathercoin and crypto currencies actually empower the very people that Ayn Rand dehumanizes…so poor analogy jti8899 though I suspect well intentioned.
[/quote]It’s not directed at him. It’s directed at the worship of well dressed douches and calling them thinkers. BAH HUMBUG.
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Take FLUX for example. It’s based on some hardcore sideways thinking, but I have some problems that prevent me from actually getting it coded. Kevlar on the other hand borrowed Mastercoin’s ideas, and did a better job. I still need his code, and his help, to bring my huge ideas to life.
Am I the producer? Is Kevlar just a code worker? Dat don’t make no sense.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47889” timestamp=“1388178752”]
Am I the producer? Is Kevlar just a code worker? Dat don’t make no sense.
[/quote]Obviously it’s the people who donated who are the producers. Without their hard earned coin the project wouldn’t be possible. /s
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47888” timestamp=“1388178481”]
It’s not directed at him. It’s directed at the worship of well dressed douches and calling them thinkers. BAH HUMBUG.
[/quote]I did not intend to imply that it was directed at him…I wanted to make sure that the distinction was there to offset the connotation of rhetoric though…
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[quote name=“mnstrcck” post=“47893” timestamp=“1388179359”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6264.msg47889#msg47889 date=1388178752]
Am I the producer? Is Kevlar just a code worker? Dat don’t make no sense.
[/quote]Obviously it’s the people who donated who are the producers. Without their hard earned coin the project wouldn’t be possible. /s
[/quote]Hm. It actually wouldn’t, but it’s moot because those people don’t bring anything to the table other than a resource, making them no special than any other person that could step to the plate.Take the concept of the producer in the movie industry. They still have to sell the concept and raise the funds, or supply it on their own. Their level of creative control can be completely diminished, however, if they trust someone else entirely (the director) to either carry out their vision or, in this case, support the director’s vision.
They’re not the most important part to the process (what’s the difference between a movie recorded with a handheld and no budget by Spielberg and a $50 million dollar pre established franchise handled by M. Night Shyamalan?) but they’re still part of the process.
As for Objectivism*, we’ve made it impossible as a society to “Go Galt”. You have to found your own country, and no one’s going to let you do that.
*It’s like my brain got tongue tied.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47859” timestamp=“1388172395”]
Atlas Shrugged promotes corporate collectivism. Look at the phrase impotent savages: It refers to the average person.
[/quote][nothing to add]
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[quote name=“HopeStillFlies” post=“47904” timestamp=“1388180697”]
[quote author=mnstrcck link=topic=6264.msg47893#msg47893 date=1388179359]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6264.msg47889#msg47889 date=1388178752]
Am I the producer? Is Kevlar just a code worker? Dat don’t make no sense.
[/quote]Obviously it’s the people who donated who are the producers. Without their hard earned coin the project wouldn’t be possible. /s
[/quote]Hm. It actually wouldn’t, but it’s moot because those people don’t bring anything to the table other than a resource, making them no special than any other person that could step to the plate.Take the concept of the producer in the movie industry. They still have to sell the concept and raise the funds, or supply it on their own. Their level of creative control can be completely diminished, however, if they trust someone else entirely (the director) to either carry out their vision or, in this case, support the director’s vision.
They’re not the most important part to the process (what’s the difference between a movie recorded with a handheld and no budget by Spielberg and a $50 million dollar pre established franchise handled by M. Night Shyamalan?) but they’re still part of the process.
As for Objectionism, we’ve made it impossible as a society to “Go Galt”. You have to found your own country, and no one’s going to let you do that.
[/quote]Objectivism, but yeah. Although I would argue that sometimes even common workers can’t bring anything to the table, not because of lack of vision, but because so often pseudovisionaries are such whiny irritable douches. The other thing is, I would love to just sit here and visionize all day. But I am pretty sure no one here would pay me to do that, unlike the way Wall Street (GROUPON LOL) and Silicon Valley (PRIVACY IS BORING) fund things.
The way the real world, the peasant market pays, is to actually build something, not to have a vision without any effort. So in a weird way we are Galt since we’re throwing off these useless Wall Street gamblers. But that’s not what Ayn Rand had in mind.
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[quote name=“mnstrcck” post=“47893” timestamp=“1388179359”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6264.msg47889#msg47889 date=1388178752]
Am I the producer? Is Kevlar just a code worker? Dat don’t make no sense.
[/quote]Obviously it’s the people who donated who are the producers. Without their hard earned coin the project wouldn’t be possible. /s
[/quote]Ayn Rand is crying in her grave. Made my day. I’m sure Kevlar feels grateful at the donations and the donors feel like he’s the second coming of Louis C.K. (made $1 M in donations for his comedy release. YOWZA!). No seriously. Those who donated are appreciated. They made it possible for Kevlar to concentrate on the project. But in the cold real world, without his work, it’s all fluff and that includes FLUX. No Link, no FLUX.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47915” timestamp=“1388182795”]
[quote author=mnstrcck link=topic=6264.msg47893#msg47893 date=1388179359]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6264.msg47889#msg47889 date=1388178752]
Am I the producer? Is Kevlar just a code worker? Dat don’t make no sense.
[/quote]Obviously it’s the people who donated who are the producers. Without their hard earned coin the project wouldn’t be possible. /s
[/quote]Ayn Rand is crying in her grave. Made my day. I’m sure Kevlar feels grateful at the donations and the donors feel like he’s the second coming of Louis C.K. (made $1 M in donations for his comedy release. YOWZA!). No seriously. Those who donated are appreciated. They made it possible for Kevlar to concentrate on the project. But in the cold real world, without his work, it’s all fluff and that includes FLUX. No Link, no FLUX.
[/quote]I’m very grateful. I gave half of it away to contributors, a BIG chunk went into testing, 98% of which went back to miners, and of what remained, a quarter went back into the community for giveaways and other projects, and the remaining 3/4ths I converted to fiat for pizza and beer. It was money well spent, and it enabled the project to move VERY VERY fast. I’m working on the next round of fundraising, this time with feature-goals and live updates on the website. Stay tuned!
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“47966” timestamp=“1388195211”]
I’m very grateful. I gave half of it away to contributors, a BIG chunk went into testing, 98% of which went back to miners, and of what remained, a quarter went back into the community for giveaways and other projects, and the remaining 3/4ths I converted to fiat for pizza and beer. It was money well spent, and it enabled the project to move VERY VERY fast. I’m working on the next round of fundraising, this time with feature-goals and live updates on the website. Stay tuned!
[/quote]Let me know what you think about the Barter example. It’s kinda overdone, but it covers all the steps which can be re-purposed.
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Well can’t claim to ever have read Altas Shuggard, and to be perfectly honest when I read the quote I saw the phrase “impotent savages” as referring to those who don’t produce anything of value (people who just churn money into more money, create volumes of laws they exempt themselves from, that sort of thing).
The example of the people who donate to someone who creates, like Kevlar, being producers is a questionable definition, it assumes money makes money (which it doesn’t). Kevlar producing something of value is pretty much without question, he is on fire with creativity.
For me at least, I look at the mountains of fiat currency created (and printed) out of thin air using things like fractional banking and see a giant beast. China alone currently holds enough “currency reserves” that if, at current gold and silver prices, were to buy every known ounce of the metals, would not even put a dent in their pile. When the beast grew to such a size that it could buy literally every known commodity of any value on the planet it became unstoppable . . .except by the majority rejecting the value of the paper they created from thin air to endow themselves with such mighty purchasing power without ever having to create a single thing (aside from the paper notes I guess). This is what crypto currency gives us the power to do. STOP using the BS paper.
Envision a world where not one single person recognizes a FRDN or Euro or YEN as having one ounce of “purchasing power” what would be the power of the men who have piles of it then? If not one single human would wash their car, cook their meals, man their factories in exchange for that crap. . .what would they do then? If to eat they had to grow something, or hunt something. To wear clean cloths they would have to wash them. To exchange with any real producer they had to bring something of value? I realize it may be over simplistic a view and unattainable in a generation maybe, but aren’t we heading in that direction with crypto?
I also do not believe that just because someone is visionary beyond their own human ability to create and instead creates a large company and hires 10 or 10,000 people to create what he or she sees is inherently evil. Steve Jobs was a incredible visionary who changed the world in ways that won’t stop for decades. Besides many many more people never see past their own shoelaces and will never create much past that which is equal to (or less than) what they consume. They all need the manic thinkers to give them purpose they can’t seem to create or find within themselves (though it does exist there).
It’s when one man takes advantage of others inability, for the sake of enriching themselves, and then feels they are somehow superior and “deserve” a larger life at the expense of those “lesser” people that the problems occur. We are all connected, when one of us starves it hurts us all. Till we get this it will never change.
Crypto to me is just another tool. I am one of those people in the opening post who has elected, after chasing the dream of riches for decades, to stop feeding that beast. I choose to earn less. Currently below the “poverty level” each year so not one dime of my creative effort is usurped and used to further distort the world we live in. I was completely retired at 40 with everything paid for and 250,000USD+ in personally traded accounts. I made and lost in single days what others around me worked months to earn. I thought, as I was taught, that more was the answer. I wanted it, because I believed to gain it was to gain my freedom. Yet I am more free now, live on less then 400USD a month, and live better than many around me figure out how to live on 4000USD a month, and I have zero USD stashed in accounts anywhere. Don’t need it, even more don’t want it.
I cashed out all my accounts and created infrastructure with all that false wealth so that others who grasped this could join me in creating something better. There are 4 adults and 2 children now that all live under 400USD and we spend all that extra time and energy to create all kinds of things. We are all far happier and less stressed. We grow food, and create, and love one another. It’s not perfect but it’s a far better way to live then anything I experienced prior to now.
When enough people do this, that other thing. . . will wither and die. Our children will look at us stunned when we tell them we use to kill each other to gain pieces of paper, the bigger the stack, the more people would die. That millions of people did not have access to clean drinking water and had to watch their children die. That at the same time thousands were collectively in agreement that a small percentage of us (who possessed the biggest pile of this paper) could do whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted and we would all let them. That these humans did insane things while we all stood by and watched. They will KNOW that that is collective insanity. I at least am able to tell my own children that I woke up and stopped. That I began to create and love instead.
peace,
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Trouble is a lot of people around Ayn Rand’s time were “eugenics fans”. Hell, that famous bad painter 4chan like to parody (I’m trying to avoid Godwinning this thread) borrowed his ideas from the UK futurists and his speech presentations from the US’s sports stadiums.
Impotent savages might refer to the well suited scammers at the federal reserve, but there was a point Ayn Rand lost the plot between forest and trees and started saying that giving to the disabled is pointless.
jti8899, I love most of what you said above and I didn’t mean to pick on you. Ayn Rand and a lot of other big names got sucked into the New Intellectual Movement of the early 20th century which reduced people to rhetorical cardboard characters (or caricatures). Rand, Bernays, Huxley’s brother Julian, and Skinner all drank the purity / elite Kool-Aid. We call it transhumanism now.
Also, how the flying f* do you manage under $400? and please teach the rest of the class. That’s amazing.
