Bitcoins at 100,000 - 1,000,000USD?
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47635” timestamp=“1388051831”]
[quote author=jti8899 link=topic=6389.msg47632#msg47632 date=1388051375]
This was an interesting read, thought I would share it.[url=http://falkvinge.net/2013/03/06/the-target-value-for-bitcoin-is-not-some-50-or-100-it-is-100000-to-1000000/]http://falkvinge.net/2013/03/06/the-target-value-for-bitcoin-is-not-some-50-or-100-it-is-100000-to-1000000/[/url]
enjoy
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[/quote]Sorry but those numbers seem to me like the wrong idea. We should be building systems where we can put economics on pause until we need it before winter. I am tired of the rat race and my health doesn’t really make rat race living possible anyway, so I’ll be building systems where people who are much more affected by the 9-5 mental illness can avoid it as much as possible.
Quantity based economics is like owning the moon because it’s there and has some interesting minerals maybe. It’s delusional.
Could bitcoin be worth 1 Million? Sure. If you need it to be worth 1 Million your priorities are f*d.
Granted. I’m leaving out the case where the US does something retarded and the dollar becomes crap. But then all cryptocurrencies will rise.
[/quote]Yup, and I heard ‘‘experts’’ on CNBC told their viewers ‘‘BTC will fall down to ZERO so get out now’’. These ‘‘I know how this works’’ men just say anything so they look like they actually know how shit is going on.
From 0,0 to 100,000,000 all ‘‘prove based’’, sure…
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Hello
My analogy. If an orange is priced at one thousand dollars and an apple is priced at two dollars, I’ll take the apple. Ha
So, if BitCoin is priced at one thousand and Feathercoin is priced at two dollars, I’ll take the Feathercoin.
Because I know the who, why, and how of Feathercoin at this point in time. It is the community that I know and follow.
I don’t know BitCoin. If I did, maybe I would think differently.
fkimbe -
[quote name=“fkimbe” post=“47660” timestamp=“1388068118”]
Hello
My analogy. If an orange is priced at one thousand dollars and an apple is priced at two dollars, I’ll take the apple. Ha
So, if BitCoin is priced at one thousand and Feathercoin is priced at two dollars, I’ll take the Feathercoin.
Because I know the who, why, and how of Feathercoin at this point in time. It is the community that I know and follow.
I don’t know BitCoin. If I did, maybe I would think differently.
fkimbe
[/quote]It’s a tool. Sure a gold hammer is worth more, but it’s a hammer, does it need to be gold in the first place?
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[quote name=“Pryderi” post=“47636” timestamp=“1388052383”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6389.msg47635#msg47635 date=1388051831]
[quote author=jti8899 link=topic=6389.msg47632#msg47632 date=1388051375]
This was an interesting read, thought I would share it.[url=http://falkvinge.net/2013/03/06/the-target-value-for-bitcoin-is-not-some-50-or-100-it-is-100000-to-1000000/]http://falkvinge.net/2013/03/06/the-target-value-for-bitcoin-is-not-some-50-or-100-it-is-100000-to-1000000/[/url]
enjoy
~//~
[/quote]Sorry but those numbers seem to me like the wrong idea. We should be building systems where we can put economics on pause until we need it before winter. I am tired of the rat race and my health doesn’t really make rat race living possible anyway, so I’ll be building systems where people who are much more affected by the 9-5 mental illness can avoid it as much as possible.
Quantity based economics is like owning the moon because it’s there and has some interesting minerals maybe. It’s delusional.
Could bitcoin be worth 1 Million? Sure. If you need it to be worth 1 Million your priorities are f*d.
Granted. I’m leaving out the case where the US does something retarded and the dollar becomes crap. But then all cryptocurrencies will rise.
[/quote]Yup, and I heard ‘‘experts’’ on CNBC told their viewers ‘‘BTC will fall down to ZERO so get out now’’. These ‘‘I know how this works’’ men just say anything so they look like they actually know how shit is going on.
From 0,0 to 100,000,000 all ‘‘prove based’’, sure…
[/quote]
It doesn’t really matter what anything is valued at in USD, if USD are worthless. I was bringing up the article for the way he calculated the market cap based on market share. It points out that there is a long way to go before bitcoin or any crypto reaches any kind of bubble. Yes it might need to be worth a million if the demand is high enough in relationship to the supply, doesn’t mean anyone’s priorities are off, rather that the actual market is larger then the amount of coins can meet valued at less then 1,000,000USD/1BTC. so 1USD becomes .000001in BTC terms, so what? You can’t create more BTC right? So you need to create more zeros to the right.There is a limited supply of bitcoins (theory says), and so to accommodate increased demand we just add zeros to the right of the decimal point instead of left as they are doing in USD. Same concept except in who gains from it. In the first scenario the producers and savers are rewarded in the second they are punished.
Your last line still has me laughing, the US [b]IS[/b] doing something retarded, they are allowing the Federal Reserve Bank to print a trillion a year (give or take a few billion) and forcing every other country on the planet to devalue their own currency to keep from importing our inflation. Who thinks this is a good game plan and, for that matter, who thinks it’s sustainable?
[quote author=fkimbe link=topic=6389.msg47660#msg47660 date=1388068118]
If an orange is priced at one thousand dollars and an apple is priced at two dollars, I’ll take the apple. Ha
So, if BitCoin is priced at one thousand and Feathercoin is priced at two dollars, I’ll take the Feathercoin.
[/quote]Saying you only want feathercoins because bitcoins are to high priced is a ridiculous argument. It’s like saying you would rather own $20 of Ford Stock then $20 of Berkshire Hathaway Stock because it’s a better value, yet Ford has never matched the performance of Berkshire in it’s history. If Berkshire was available infinitely divisible (like bitcoin), and you were to buy $20 of each, you would own a whole share of Ford, but only something like 1/8,845th of a share of Berkshire, yet the return on your investment would be far greater with Berkshire.
I don’t want you to think I see either BTC or FTC as investments, I don’t. I see them as replacements, both of them. But we have to be able to see that zeros on the right vs zeros on the left is the best thing ever to happen for the people who produce and save. I’ll take .00033602 btc as payment the same as I would take 1ftc they are the same value.(at the moment)learning needs to be fun again
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[quote]It doesn’t really matter what anything is valued at in USD, if USD are worthless. I was bringing up the article for the way he calculated the market cap based on market share. It points out that there is a long way to go before bitcoin or any crypto reaches any kind of bubble. Yes it might need to be worth a million if the demand is high enough in relationship to the supply, doesn’t mean anyone’s priorities are off, rather that the actual market is larger then the amount of coins can meet valued at less then 1,000,000USD/1BTC. so 1USD becomes .000001in BTC terms, so what? You can’t create more BTC right? So you need to create more zeros to the right.
There is a limited supply of bitcoins (theory says), and so to accommodate increased demand we just add zeros to the right of the decimal point instead of left as they are doing in USD. Same concept except in who gains from it. In the first scenario the producers and savers are rewarded in the second they are punished.
Your last line still has me laughing, the US IS doing something retarded, they are allowing the Federal Reserve Bank to print a trillion a year (give or take a few billion) and forcing every other country on the planet to devalue their own currency to keep from importing our inflation. Who thinks this is a good game plan and, for that matter, who thinks it’s sustainable?[/quote]
That’s why I’m getting a bit moody against those articles, they have no clue what they’re talking about (or well they actually do but it’s not the case with Bitcoin) and so expter 1 says it worth 0 and expert 2 says its 2million.
In the coming years I hope these expert will not be asked to speak out their expertise because theyw ere wrong about the Bitcoin and kept spreading that words. (Atleast half of these journalists/experts is going to be wrong, which creates a lot of new talent incoming to the journalism yay)
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[quote name=“jti8899” post=“47794” timestamp=“1388138174”]
Saying you only want feathercoins because bitcoins are to high priced is a ridiculous argument. It’s like saying you would rather own $20 of Ford Stock then $20 of Berkshire Hathaway Stock because it’s a better value, yet Ford has never matched the performance of Berkshire in it’s history. If Berkshire was available infinitely divisible (like bitcoin), and you were to buy $20 of each, you would own a whole share of Ford, but only something like 1/8,845th of a share of Berkshire, yet the return on your investment would be far greater with Berkshire.
I don’t want you to think I see either BTC or FTC as investments, I don’t. I see them as replacements, both of them. But we have to be able to see that zeros on the right vs zeros on the left is the best thing ever to happen for the people who produce and save. I’ll take .00033602 btc as payment the same as I would take 1ftc they are the same value.(at the moment)learning needs to be fun again
~//~
[/quote]Owning $20 of Berkshire is like buying Monsanto food.
Owning $20 of Joe’s Garage is like boycotting Monsanto food.We are in this mess because we allowed real values (I don’t want poison) to be overshadowed by abstract values ($20). We do it partly because we gave up on standing up and we deserve to get stomped on for it. The other reason is that we can say $20 is $20 whereas “I don’t want poison” involves more complex decisions.
So no. $20 of Joe’s Garage is in the long run worth more than $20 of Berkshire. Until we stop generalizing to quantities in some pseudoromantic pseudointellectual theory, we will lose. Real values matter.
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Hello
[b]Saying you only want feathercoins because bitcoins are to high priced is a ridiculous argument.[/b]I hear you. But I don’t want your BitCoin. Not right now at least. Ha
At the present time, BitCoin is more widely known and accepted than Feathercoin.
But, I do not believe that it is more valuable. Just me.
The US dollar could add value to holders if the economy will be gaining more production/exchange.
But, of course, we know that the so called “printing presses” will likely overrun any gain in the general economy.
But, don’t be surprised to see the dollar price move up against other fiat currencies short term. (perception)
Back on point. Here is the way I see BitCoin and Feathercoin “longterm”
Twenty two million Bitcoin or whatever the number is.
Three hundred and thirty six million Feathercoin…
Quick math: ratio 16-1 not actual but close enough for me.
Yeah yeah, BitCoin is and has been the trailblazers. Again perception. None of the cryptocoins produce anything.
Gold is more scarce than silver. The ratio is out of balance today though.
That is what I believe about BitCoin and Feathercoin.
Community and perception is what holds them together to be of any value.
Let the communities fail, and oops…
OK, I know that many many arguments can be made. So fire away. Ha ha
fkimbe -
[quote name=“fkimbe” post=“47854” timestamp=“1388170401”]
Gold is more scarce than silver. The ratio is out of balance today though.
fkimbe
[/quote]Um. I think you meant the other way around.
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[b]Gold is more scarce than silver. The ratio is out of balance today though.
fkimbeUm. I think you meant the other way around.[/b]
I wanted to point out the historical ratio of gold and silver. Some say 10 -1
Others say 16-1 etc.
Just as Feathercoin and Bitcoin is today. With Feathercoin being the least well
known and accepted today.
Moving on into the future? Hmmm Who knows. Perception I guess. Ha
fkimbe -
[quote name=“fkimbe” post=“47860” timestamp=“1388172635”]
[b]Gold is more scarce than silver. The ratio is out of balance today though.
fkimbeUm. I think you meant the other way around.[/b]
I wanted to point out the historical ratio of gold and silver. Some say 10 -1
Others say 16-1 etc.
Just as Feathercoin and Bitcoin is today. With Feathercoin being the least well
known and accepted today.
Moving on into the future? Hmmm Who knows. Perception I guess. Ha
fkimbe
[/quote]The point is though, in the actual resources silver is rarer than gold.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47635” timestamp=“1388051831”]
Sorry but those numbers seem to me like the wrong idea. We should be building systems where we can put economics on pause until we need it before winter. I am tired of the rat race and my health doesn’t really make rat race living possible anyway, so I’ll be building systems where people who are much more affected by the 9-5 mental illness can avoid it as much as possible.
[/quote]I agree that as a whole this should be our priority. We need to restructure how we as a society value our time. But that is easier said than done. The people at the top like it this way and want it to remain for obvious reasons. We need Bitcoin and other crypto currencies to increase exponentially like that so the people who would never have made it to the top can potentially effect some positive change in that direction.
In that sense, wanting Bitcoin or needing it to be worth a million isn’t an effed priority. Will it be worth a million. Eh…I somehow doubt it. The article is old and didn’t factor in any kind of government regulation which is what we are starting to see indirectly so I think it is a bit optimistic. That and it is kind of biased. The author’s disclaimer at the bottom is mildly amusing
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[quote name=“MemoryShock” post=“47865” timestamp=“1388173889”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6389.msg47635#msg47635 date=1388051831]
Sorry but those numbers seem to me like the wrong idea. We should be building systems where we can put economics on pause until we need it before winter. I am tired of the rat race and my health doesn’t really make rat race living possible anyway, so I’ll be building systems where people who are much more affected by the 9-5 mental illness can avoid it as much as possible.
[/quote]I agree that as a whole this should be our priority. We need to restructure how we as a society value our time. But that is easier said than done. The people at the top like it this way and want it to remain for obvious reasons. We need Bitcoin and other crypto currencies to increase exponentially like that so the people who would never have made it to the top can potentially effect some positive change in that direction.
In that sense, wanting Bitcoin or needing it to be worth a million isn’t an effed priority. Will it be worth a million. Eh…I somehow doubt it. The article is old and didn’t factor in any kind of government regulation which is what we are starting to see indirectly so I think it is a bit optimistic. That and it is kind of biased. The author’s disclaimer at the bottom is mildly amusing
[/quote]But if Bitcoin had stayed low it would have spread faster and we wouldn’t need to reform the top. The top would just wake up without any servants.
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[b]Gold is more scarce than silver. The ratio is out of balance today though.
fkimbeUm. I think you meant the other way around.
I wanted to point out the historical ratio of gold and silver. Some say 10 -1
Others say 16-1 etc.
Just as Feathercoin and Bitcoin is today. With Feathercoin being the least well
known and accepted today.
Moving on into the future? Hmmm Who knows. Perception I guess. Ha
fkimbeThe point is though, in the actual resources silver is rarer than gold.[/b]
Ha Ha You have proven my point. Perception
How many people out of a thousand believe what you wrote. Ha ha
But, you are correct.
All about perception at this point in time.
Then slowly at first, the masses gets more information to make their decisions.
And in today’s information explosion, the time needed will be much much less.
jmht
fkimbe -
[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47869” timestamp=“1388174352”]
[quote author=MemoryShock link=topic=6389.msg47865#msg47865 date=1388173889]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6389.msg47635#msg47635 date=1388051831]
Sorry but those numbers seem to me like the wrong idea. We should be building systems where we can put economics on pause until we need it before winter. I am tired of the rat race and my health doesn’t really make rat race living possible anyway, so I’ll be building systems where people who are much more affected by the 9-5 mental illness can avoid it as much as possible.
[/quote]I agree that as a whole this should be our priority. We need to restructure how we as a society value our time. But that is easier said than done. The people at the top like it this way and want it to remain for obvious reasons. We need Bitcoin and other crypto currencies to increase exponentially like that so the people who would never have made it to the top can potentially effect some positive change in that direction.
In that sense, wanting Bitcoin or needing it to be worth a million isn’t an effed priority. Will it be worth a million. Eh…I somehow doubt it. The article is old and didn’t factor in any kind of government regulation which is what we are starting to see indirectly so I think it is a bit optimistic. That and it is kind of biased. The author’s disclaimer at the bottom is mildly amusing
[/quote]But if Bitcoin had stayed low it would have spread faster and we wouldn’t need to reform the top. The top would just wake up without any servants.
[/quote]Adoption might have spread faster when BTC had stayed low, bit the word about BTC is spreading a lot faster because love the ‘‘over night millionaire’’ stories.
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[quote name=“Pryderi” post=“47878” timestamp=“1388175781”]
Adoption might have spread faster when BTC had stayed low, bit the word about BTC is spreading a lot faster because love the ‘‘over night millionaire’’ stories.
[/quote]And? those stories help whom?
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47869” timestamp=“1388174352”]
But if Bitcoin had stayed low it would have spread faster and we wouldn’t need to reform the top. The top would just wake up without any servants.
[/quote]If Bitcoin had stayed low it wouldn’t have caught the attention of the mainstream…who still need the hierarchy to tell them what to be interested in. Decades of psychological entrainment is more of a factor than you might think…
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[quote name=“MemoryShock” post=“47884” timestamp=“1388176661”]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6389.msg47869#msg47869 date=1388174352]
But if Bitcoin had stayed low it would have spread faster and we wouldn’t need to reform the top. The top would just wake up without any servants.
[/quote]If Bitcoin had stayed low it wouldn’t have caught the attention of the mainstream…who still need the hierarchy to tell them what to be interested in. Decades of psychological entrainment is more of a factor than you might think…
[/quote]Or we could have several microeconomies and be ahead of the herd.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47887” timestamp=“1388178301”]
Or we could have several microeconomies and be ahead of the herd.
[/quote]I think that has already begun…
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“47869” timestamp=“1388174352”]
[quote author=MemoryShock link=topic=6389.msg47865#msg47865 date=1388173889]
[quote author=zerodrama link=topic=6389.msg47635#msg47635 date=1388051831]
Sorry but those numbers seem to me like the wrong idea. We should be building systems where we can put economics on pause until we need it before winter. I am tired of the rat race and my health doesn’t really make rat race living possible anyway, so I’ll be building systems where people who are much more affected by the 9-5 mental illness can avoid it as much as possible.
[/quote]I agree that as a whole this should be our priority. We need to restructure how we as a society value our time. But that is easier said than done. The people at the top like it this way and want it to remain for obvious reasons. We need Bitcoin and other crypto currencies to increase exponentially like that so the people who would never have made it to the top can potentially effect some positive change in that direction.
In that sense, wanting Bitcoin or needing it to be worth a million isn’t an effed priority. Will it be worth a million. Eh…I somehow doubt it. The article is old and didn’t factor in any kind of government regulation which is what we are starting to see indirectly so I think it is a bit optimistic. That and it is kind of biased. The author’s disclaimer at the bottom is mildly amusing
[/quote]But if Bitcoin had stayed low it would have spread faster and we wouldn’t need to reform the top. The top would just wake up without any servants.
[/quote]zerodrama,
That is going to be my quote of the month. I absolutely think that is the coolest think anyone has said (and I heard) in quite some time. I do understand many of the points you are making and agree with all of them, but we have to completely alter our way of seeing everything.
Silver is still mined at about 16/1 to gold, but it is used up industrially to the point where the above ground ratio is way inverse to that (in my opinion).
The value of a bitcoin in USD is an irrelevant point in the long term as the dollar finishes it’s dive to 0. We do it though, so we can understand what it’s trade value is against other things of real value until we retrain our thinking completely out of USD (read what ever worthless paper you were trained in). They will change in value up and down as the need for them rises and falls, just add or subtract zeros to the right of the decimal point. . .who cares! But with that said and knowing this will ultimately be the collective truth, we are not there yet. To get there we have to go through this process of relearning everything we thought we knew.
One of the effects of this process is that a great deal of power will change from one set of hands to another set of hands. My hope is that is lands in the hands of people like yourself, who understand what to do with it is to create viable alternatives to the 9 to 5 grind thing. I mean that with a great deal of respect, as I read between the lines of what your saying in many of these posts that that is what you would do with it. That is diametrically opposed to what the men with that power currently do with it in their greed soaked states.
Thanks for that quote. . .“wake up with no slaves”. I think that is exactly what will happen if BTC were to rapidly rise in value in the hands of those who would no more trade it for USD than they would use it to feed their own greed. Guess we will all get to see how it plays out.
peace
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I’ve seen Max Kaiser quote 700k USD for BTC. I trust what he has to say over a lot of sources. That being said, in all honesty it’s all nothing but speculation, and could never be anything but. The value will be determined by supply as well as what people say it’s worth. As long as more and more stores accept it, and governments legitimize it, it will continue to appreciate in value. All any of these guys are, are analysts. They analyze data and give “their opinion solely”.
That being said, All the coins in a way are tied to BT. If BTC fails chances are the rest of them will as well (If all the way or a good chunk anything else would be pure speculation). That being said. BTC will not be alone as far as ecurrencies go. LTC seems to be the silver of the ‘gold standard’ and (my money is on FTC mostly due to higher adoption and viability as a spendable currency) and another cryptocoin as a bronze that you would likely see being spent more commonly.
If we say it’s worth nothing, then it is. If we say otherwise: well you see where i’m going with this.
