Posts made by Berzeck

@lizhi Did you download the wallet and read the blog post?

@ghostlander said:

@Berzeck That’s what it is. You may call it a framework if you like, however the functionality is limited by the RPC interface. The core GUI may do much more if necessary. The RPC data exchange is also a subject of JSON overhead, though it doesn’t matter much I suppose. Can you run it over RPC-SSL? Could be useful for remote wallet access.

The functionality of WBC is not limited to RPC interface because you could, for example, make a whole video game inside the wallet, i am sure that FTC’s RPC API can’t do that; also you can build NON UI components so you couldn’t call it a GUI wrapper by definition. Price extractor is a small example of a non ui object built using the framework, so the price becomes a standard variable object you can use for your own components without the need to know where or how it is defined ( RPC mechanism? Internet? ), long term we will implement a lot of useful objects like more complex statistical variables for trade analysis, or simple ones like reward projection and others.

We haven’t implemented RPC-SSL for remote control yet, shouldn’t be complicated and will probably do in the future when and if users start asking for that :), it would be interesting if we could promote this for exchanges as a ‘remote daemon controller’, we will see. Thanks for the idea.

JSON overhead do not represent a fraction of a percentage point of total processing required by a full node, also i didn’t see anything in the current Qt wallet that can not be implemented by ‘outsider’ code. Care to detail a little?

@ghostlander said:

If I get it right, it’s a GUI wrapper which makes RPC calls to a daemon. The current GUI doesn’t need RPC. It’s integrated into the core.

FTC is already v2 enforced since v0.8.7.

Sadly no, you don’t get it right. WBC is a whole framework that enables a user to develop a wide range of non compiled applications inside the wallet, extremely easy to develop that hides completely the internals of crypto from the developer. Actually, decoupling the core from UI is considered a good practice on every language available, this is a very useful feature because it allows two completely different development cycles for two completely different kinds of products:
a] The daemon: slow development cycle, needs a lot of QA, certain knowledge of crypto internals, c++ and so on
b] WBC: very fast development cylce, needs standard QA time, requieres no knowledge of crypto internals, extremely fast deployment and some other features. UI development is just a side product of the whole framework and certainly not the most important, but it allows designers to directly contribute to the development cycle without knowing anything about programming.

I will have to ask to excuse my bad English again because probably i am not being too clear in some points.

Also I was asking for advice on enforcing v2 protocol because obviously you guys already have experience with it, and considering our situation (we don’t have any idea on what percentage of people will upgrade), i thought it was a good idea to ask for advice just in case.

I also would like to ask kindly , please download the wallet and read the blog so you guys can have a more informed opinion. If you think “It’s crap and we don’t need that useless sh**” i can live with that AFTER you understand what i am talking about. Also the blog just talks about ONE feature of the framework, there are other features important too, but at least it will give a clearer idea of what our objectives are with WBC.

@Wellenreiter
Exactly! But our implementation is done in C++, Qt and QML (which uses a lot of Javascript) instead of html 5. Because i consider component reuse more clean and QML implementation of reusable objects is superb!, also in my tests it is faster.
Of course in the future our idea is to adapt backbone to other devices and only change the UI. One code many UI’s according to the form factor.

@Wellenreiter said:

@Berzeck

Sounds inteeresting. We will look into it.

Without knowing your code, I already have some questions.

• Did you write your new code from scratch?
• Did you fork some BTC/LTC code?
  • if Yes, which version?
• how flexible is your code?
  • can it adapt to uncommon behavior of a blockchain?
    1. We changed mean time to block from 2.5 mins to 1 min
    2. We changed the number of coins mined per block from 200 to 80
    3. We changed our Algorithm form Scrypt to Neoscrypt.
  • all of the above requires special coding
• can you provide a link to your latest code base?
  • saves some searching ;)

Thank you for your interest!
My answer below will cover all questions (hopefully):

• The Business Center (WBC) is written in c++ (Qt) from scratch not a single line leeched from anywhere.
  WBC translates requests from UI (users) to RPC API calls to the standard already developed and more stable daemon (another executable) and also to external services (like price in USD for example) . This means that the daemon is already written. In other words Business Center acts as a thick layer of abstraction between a daemon and the user. The idea is that users can make easily their own modules and components using this level of abstraction which is a lot easier to develop … no c++, everything is scripted, no risk of fucking up with core crypto functions, no need to understand how underlaying crypto works just common sense. In this way core functions (daemons) can progress a lot more slowly (because they need a lot more QA and testing) but WBC progress a lot faster with the ability to integrate many services and functions. As i put in my blog, it is very easy that each user/company scratches their own itches without depending on core developers.

Each daemon is implemented using 2 objects:

• A c++ plugin. Which detail some particularities of the the specified daemon and acts as the bridge between WBC and the executable
• A dictionary text file which lists specific RPC API calls for that daemon with their expected results which WBC would parse

In other words you don’t have to scrap all your code, just the current Qt part and develop the plugin for WBC to connect to it, also WBC is completely themable so you can use your branding as you please.

If you have some minutes to spare it would be very useful if you can download the wallet and read the blog which it is referred in my first post to understand what we consider one of our killer features.

Repo of WBC: https://github.com/WorldcoinGlobal/WorldcoinPanel (Build system is QBS not qmake because Qt guys said that they wont evolve it anymore, edit main .qbs file and change paths accordingly). It is tested with Linux and VS 2013 both 64 bits
Repo of WDC daemon: https://github.com/WorldcoinGlobal/WorldcoinDaemon

Speaking about rebasing (0.10.2) we can’t decide on two items so i wanted to consult you guys how you are dealing with them :
a] For future BTC rebasing (0.1x.x) how are you dealing with ACS (Advanced Checkpoint System)will you keep it? risks?
b] Do you consider that enforcing protocol v2 a good idea if you don’t have any idea if most nodes will upgrade?

We are not pushing our rebasing project because we want to maintain 100% compatibility with previous Qt wallet for some months at least. As it is a big change it will take longer for people to adopt than normal releases.

@lizhi said:

Hi Mario Blacutt , I see your point.Thank you for your advice. We’ll consider your proposal.
Now, our development is still based on bitcoin.

Thanks for your response. Let me know when you decide something.

What do you mean with parasite your brand? the whole point is that the wallet is easily rebrandable.
Besides do you honestly believe that i am interested in FTC brand? if that’s the case wouldn’t it be more effective for me to go to ltc/btc or one of 40+ coins that has more brand recognition than yours? (or ours for that matter)
In your logic if BTC release version 0.12 and someone posts here about its benefits then you will say that they are parasites too? “hey guys we will re base to BTC 0.12 but shhhhh nobody can talk about it’s benefits in public”
No wonder why there a 600+ coins with 600+ developers

Hello, my name is Mario Blacutt, I am the manger of worldcoin.global team.
Some months ago i came here with a proposal to join forces in some development areas, back at the time we didn’t have too much to show and without a clear idea on what exactly we were searching for … this has changed now with our new version series 2.x.x, so in order to expose my idea I will divide my post in 3 sections:

1] What we have
2] What we want
3] What we offer

Hands on!

1] What we have .- We have made a new software from scratch, the architecture is completely changed and our new software has a lot of benefits we didn’t hear in crypto world:

1.1] Refactored architecture.- Now there are 4 completely separated layers:
1.1.1] The Daemon.- This is the application that performs crypto related activities like signing, sending coins, etc. It is the same application that exchanges, pools, etc are using, extremely stable.
1.1.2] The Director.- This is another application written in c++ called WorldcoinPanel, it’s main objective is to translate, coordinate and send back an answer of requests from the UI to the appropriate component target.
1.1.3] Components.- All components are scripts. A lot easier to develop (low learning curve) and a lot simpler to deploy (no more compiling, c++ nor visual studio). Components are loaded by the Director
Check code of components deployed inside ‘Components’ subdirectory to get an idea
1.1.4] User Interface (UI).- All elements of the UI are made using scripts and are loaded by the Director. One side effect of this is that we have an extremely powerful theme engine.

1.2] Custom components.- People and companies are able to develop their own components using scripts, these are fairly resistant to changes if wallet needs upgrading

1.3] Development framework.- Special functions and objects are being built specifically for WDC to simplify even more third party development process

1.4] Video card acceleration.- WBC tries to use video card to render all graphics removing the burden of rendering from the CPU.

1.5] Wapptoms.- These are basic units of crypto information and stand for ‘WDC Application Atom’, like Price, Difficulty, Hash Rate, etc. You can use these objects as simple variables in your custom components without worrying about implementation details (like network connections, syntax and other annoyances)

1.6] Theme engine.- WBC allows four levels of visual customization using scripts

• Changing colors, sizes.
• Changing images.
• Layout management.
• Advanced scripting
  Check UI inside ‘WFUserInterface’ folder
  Designers could have a direct role in development

1.7] Resolution independence.- Sizes are expressed in centimeters rather than pixels, so WBC will look more or less the same in monitors with different resolutions and DPI’s

1.8] Scaling.- When WBC is running, pressing Ctrl + rotating mouse wheel will scale up or down the wallet, this is possible because graphics are rendered by the video card instead of the cpu.

1.9] Automatic upgrade.- WBC is able to alert the user if a new version is released and the user can load the ‘Updater’ component, check out things that were changed and decide if he decides to go trough the process he only needs to click ‘Ok’ and WBC will do the rest (Including making a backup before the process starts)

In order to measure the efficiency of our new framework , i made a blog post with this goal in mind:

• Develop a component which retrieves the last transactions from the wallet, converts them to american dollars and calculates the VAT according to a predefined parameter. Also we want to refresh automatically the transaction list whenever the exchange rate changes.

Ask yourselves how much time (including compiling and deploying) would take this requirement in the current architecture.
With our architecture it took 70 lines of scripted code and 20 minutes of development. ( the blog took 2 hours to write)

Hence we changed the ‘wallet’ term to Worldcoin Business Center, where the wallet is just a single module (we have just 2 modules developed right now)

Screenshot 1
Screenshot 1

2] What we want
a] Join forces to continue WBC development with more developers
b] Coordinate and co develop daemon re basing from last ltc/btc wallets

3] What we offer
As the design separates completely the daemon from the UI, it would be relatively easy to make a port for FTC and use your branding.
a] Guidelines on how to achieve port using our code
b] Support in that process

So what do you guys think?

PD: My cpu usage goes to the roof when using this site. Does anybody experience the same thing? Using Linux OpenSuse Leap 42.1

Again there are lot of open source projects that have milestones and deadlines, it is not taboo nor black arts it works for some of them (tip: google is your friend)

Anyway the point is that how we organize ourselves is our business period, may work or may not, but you don’t have anything to do with it, if you were not comfortable with the word deadline well you could just said that in one sentence and surely we could try to sort it out someway sparing me of useless long read.

I am amused that even i almost explicitely warned not to take the bait you took it :

"too easy to taunt … ", i throw the meat i dare you to go after it, and you go after the bait, invalidating your melodramatic long goodbye post which ironically is probably the best contribution you are able to make to this community for now.

Also it’s interesting to read your inhability to process simple metaphors and analogies, no wonder why you are so proud of your dancing metaphor, answering with pseudo rationality resemblant to a cheap manga version of Dr. House

You tried to to keep your self control though , good work ! it’s a start …

“The correct approach was dancing with us, and learning how to work with the rest of the open source world, not rage quitting”

i never lose control nor take it personally (even when it is)

My colleagues and i feel a lot of respect to ghostlander, peter, lizhi even if we do not agree with some development made, and we will probably fuck up many times because nobody really knows what’s the final shape successful crypto will have so what ?. i will try to contact them in the comming months when we have something concrete to show, that’s it. I hope that by then you move with ‘your teachings’ elsewere as you said you would.

So here we go again with another chunk of meat :

“too easy to taunt …” (will you take the bait again ? or we can end this here )

Another gem from Kevlar I’m stealing.

[Kevlar]

This is exactly the behavior I referred to that has been proven to be detrimental to open source development.
FTC started this way.
It resulted in people burning out before they did any work at all.
That’s exactly the wrong way of including a voulenteer, treating them as an equal and encouraging collaboration.
That’s exactly the wrong way of including a voulenteer, treating them as an equal and encouraging collaboration.
That’s NOT how you start a movement.

[/kevlar]

:)

I am starting to think that your definition of ‘detrimental to open source’ is : “Those who don’t bow under thy majesty …”

I don’t know what happened to Peter and others but i suspect it is an easy guess. Does being like that makes you feel tough ? Do you really know what being strong means ? it means that you are capable of making your comrades feel STRONGER not WEAKER even when you *think* you are right and they are wrong … to lend a hand instead of a fist to those who just want to help, thats how true alliances are forged, when true loyalties are born …

Too easy to taunt, too easy to lose control, so full of yourself, almost incapable of acquiring value from others

All people have something valuable to offer: knowledge, coding skills, advice, opinions,. ideas, optimism, serenity, empathy … and it is our duty to make the best of it, because we will need every drop of it in the future; i mean what do you think will happen in a couple of years when crypto really starts being mainstream and financial institutions begins to spend millions of dollars trying to make the rest of the world believe we are the worst kind of parasites in existence ? will your supporters feel safe behind your github repository [‘Powering cloud computing’] ??? . After that when governments, backed by private interests, start cracking the companies that are using crypto … will they feel confident because of your 2 new [‘in production use’] languages ??? And if by a miracle we go through that phase and credit card companies start investing billions of dollars trying to stop crypto at all costs … should the community feel safe with you ‘championing’ it with your paycheck in one hand and your physics engine [ © ] on the other ???

Alpha male character is only useful when you need to survive among a pack of dogs.

Personally i think you could be an incredible good asset to the community, but until you understand what that word really means you are kind of useless, well maybe some people will still back you, but that’s probably because they developed some form of stockholm syndrome.

We need to change the way we think, the way we act, the assets we consider valuable

I will spare you a rage induced heart attack because i will stop posting in this forum, at least for now,… some wounds need to be healed before … A defensive stance is not useful for any one to make progress

Be strong friends… Always, be truly strong

Also, a friend of mine asked me to clarify something that it seems it can generate confussion.

We all are volunteers of course, we don’t impose a time schedule to devs, it’s the other way around we ask them to make a commitment about what they can do with the time they have available to invest.

for example is some one says, “i have one hour monthly to spare to the project” we say “great ! then maybe you can help us making the splash screen on the next month!” , so if he accepts and makes this commitment we put pressure on his deadline (not ours).

Of course we will see in the comming months if this works or not.

1. i wasn’t there when that happened, although kevin speaks very good about that relationship and from peter himself, thats the reason i chosed this forum first, there was an history in cooperation; very sad peter is not here anymore

2. dev team was not completely reformulated at that time

3. i mention code rebase because that’s the only thing i am seeign right now that it would be interesting for us (again i am not finding any plan from any dev), this doesnt mean that we are not able to do it ourselves is necessary

Or as kevlar put it, make a pull request from your work

4. as many of us have a bussiness background ( in fact this is the reason we were able to change a lot of policies very fast) we would like to make investments were we recover our money (sustainability)

5. our team is solid but small. We would like that changes in the block chain being more thouroughly tested so sharing the QA would be nice ( again not a necessity, just a wish)

PD: i am pretty sure that business in general and users don’t really care about scrypt or neo scrypt, they just expect core to function well thats it, to them all core progress is (and should be ) transparent so we will leech progress from others so our users can directly ‘see’ our progress very fast

It doesn’t take much knowledge to write a shell script for something like awk to replace all Xcoin instances with Ycoin ones. Copy-paste the graphics, apply a core patch for coin specific code and you’re ready to go. No need to make things even more complicated. The current code base is bloated already.

Have you got any interesting developments in the core going? As I’ve said previously, any UI tweaks aren’t really appealing.

Of course it is bloated thats the whole point , do you really expect a graphic designer will run an awk script to change the icons (i know it doesnt work this way its just an example for complexity) ? generally speaking usability teams can not depend on core progress ; thats the mantra which modern software companies are working on (it is not our invention ) and creating an unified source code for all form factors it is not (technically speaking) just an UI tweak. Whats more trying to convince a business to accept your coin and answer to their manager information requirements : “its easy to make an awk script” is a lot harder than convincing them saying : “you just need your web dev type 5 lines of code to have that info in a friendly in wallet graphical way”.

As i say, the only core progress we are interested now is reabasing our core wallet which we will do with or without cooperation with another coin. For us trying to change pow and pos is a waste of time and screw those who have bought the hardware to support the net. Of course if someone does a completely brilliant transformation we will adopt it, but we won’t spend countless hours trying to discover the holy grail ourselves.

• About hard anonymous transactions : we want business to accept our coin, we will do it if regulation approves this formaly ( we value pragmatism over idealism )

• About x,y,z Incorporations to the blockchain: thats a broader subject, but trying to bloat the chain with transactions that the network itself doesn’t have the ‘knowledge’ ( for example network know coins because it know its structure and can mine them, the same can not be said about cell phones for example if you are trying to incorporate a market shop directly in the chain)is a mistake in our view; we prefer a completely slim, secure chain that does what has to do in the best way possible other wise a wide range of new attacks are possible. Of course scalability issues aren’t resolved either.

I see a kind of cognitive dissonance here. The WDC team wants to cooperate with us, but they don’t want anything we have or do currently. What’s the point to cooperate with someone who cannot deliver anything interesting even if it’s a step in a wrong direction?

Is there anything interesting you can provide? A rebranded Qt GUI isn’t interesting, sorry. It doesn’t improve functionality or add any. If you speak of development, why haven’t you invited your developers here to speak without a middleman?

Hi ! thanks for your answer.

1. We don’t want anything you have now, that is the reason i wanted to know what is the plan for this year (which still i don’t have a good idea), as Kevlar correctly pointed out, we would be interested if FTC rebase their wallet to lastest (not interim) BTC version, i am sure we could find a lot of interesting things in the pipeline if we somehow could have some access to it.

2. i will try to summarize our dev plan :

2.1) Decouple UI interfaces completely from core deamon, these UI will be built in a scripted language so people won’t need to recompile trying to change the font, color , etc,

There are 3 interesting consequences of this part :

a) UI improvements will progress a lot faster than core (as it should ) with the help of people that has no experience with crypto, c++ or qt -

b) It will start an unified source code tree for diverse form factors : tablets, desktops, hdpi, etc which could share most of core programming and only the UI would change ( as Ubuntu or Windows are trying to do )

c) a theme engine will be born

2.2) Making the wallet 100 % modular

User modules could be built in an scripted language too, abstracting and simplfying a lot of issues related to crypto

For example making a beautiful ticker for your wallet will take just 10 lines of scripted code without the need of recompiling anything or crypto related topics, just some common sense

The idea here is to recruit a lot of passive potential man work that know java script but doesnt have the time to learn c++ or crypto related algorithms, and overall feel intimidated with the learning curve that programming directly in the wallet implies now ; making our wallet very attractive to new developers

Every module could be loaded runtime.

Official modules have a hash so when the software starts, it will compare this hashes with the original ones to assure that no single dot was changed. ( actually we can have this service now with our automatic download tool - gauss)

Obviously security concerns should be addressed including making a very secure sand box .

The point being : most coins are trying to improve with core changes ( pow - pos) and searching the holy grail ( a perfect system ASIC ‘resistant’ - and inmune to 51 % attacks ), in our view core technology is good enough and we use BTC and LTC growth as basis for this claim,… but if against odds some one finds this holy grail our daemon isolation will make this migration easier, the currently working download system could make a strong push for people to update in case a hard fork is required in the event we need to change PoW - PoS in the future. All this gives us the confidence to innovate in areas not explored yet which we believe are very important for the user experience.

Collaboration always is a good way to move forward, if the goals match.

The difference I see is, that WDC developement is done like it’s done in a company, with a planning, developement and implementation phase together with defined timelines and commitments to these timelines, while in FTC everybody -technical and and non-technical people- ‘donate’ their time to the coin and therefore adhereing to a strict timeline is not really possible.

I still see possibities to collaborate, but I see it more on a case by case basis, rather tan beeing a collaboration program.

I completely agree with what you said :)

:D

.

1. “It doesn’t take a coder to understand that implementing a feature in one code base is less work than implementing it in two different ones. Your logic fails so miserably …” i never said that making the second implementation takes 0 time (i don’t understand how could you infer that ‘logically’), i said that it takes a lot less time for the team that created the module than for a third party team, and i explanied why this is a fact and how open source companies exploit this fact to make revenue.

2. >95% coins have a rebranded wallet including FTC wallet which actually started as a rebranded LTC wallet, so i really don’t get the problem about it.

That’s because you’re obviously never worked on an open source project as a developer, let alone solved an actual problem like the one your describing.

Another ‘cloudy’ assumption. Using code from other party, make changes and then re brand it, is not an open source only activity, big companies buy smaller companies and rebrand their products (including software) all the time, you are implying that one has to be an experiencied opensource developer to rebrand succesfully a piece of code, that is … mmmm … well just wrong, very very wrong

3. about long corny dancing metaphor … you said in a lot of sentences the same thing i did, we have different development models period. How you infer that i implied that your development model is worse than ours is a mistery to me, because i didn’t. (another far fetched inference )

4. about your comment on how ‘idiots like me’ are trying to make a business around opensource :

For starters when you try to insult someone it would give you a higher status and make more impact if you at least tried to do that with some class, i see that you won’t understand this … at least not now … but keep this in mind for the future ;)

Anyway Red Hat which has more than a billion of dollars in revenue each year are managed by ‘idiots like me’ that are trying and ‘failed’ miserably. It would take little time to list on google companies that have a succesfull business around opensource running by complete ‘idiots’ that are making a lot of money ‘failing’

By the way, having deadlines and pressure it’s not a private company only attribute ,another ‘murky’ assumption; governements, health care, stablished opensource projects, etc. all of them have this attributes to succesfully achieve their goals

5. about your curriculum.- impressive indeed, i confirm my withdrawal of my initial comment about the subject

6. about other points you made … mmm ok … well probably you need to speak to some one else … with another area of expertise

Anyway i was beginning to refute your rant point by point with an extended answer but i realized that it would be just an incredible waste of time. Obviously something very bad happened here because you are ranting about things that has nothing to do with anything and it is extremely emotional not rational which make your inferences too far fetched; obviously a rational debate isn’t possible only greek style drama. So what about this proposal : Lets not waste each others time; i am sure supporters don’t want to see us going circles trying to show who has the biggest penis around … in a forum thread … so i will refrain myself of posting paragraphs of boring read about my qualifications. Let’s just move on !

To community: I understand these are difficult times for all alts, but we have to be strong, let’s not fight for petty reasons, never stop posting ideas and opinions because you are afraid some one will call you an ‘idiot’ , that is how communities die, and right now we all have the responsibility to keep our respective communities alive so let’s put all our energies doing just that. Succesfull communities are not forged by lonely ‘rock stars’ and will never be.

Worldcoin will always be open to true collaboration, wether in developement or in other areas and as i said before, if now it’s not the right time let’s keep the door open for futher joint work ;)

PD: As always please forgive me my bad English maybe it’s the source of misunderstandings :)

I’d welcome you to stick around, please don’t feel like we are not ‘coin friendly’, our door is always open, if there is every any feathercoin features you wish to port and have questions, please post back and I’m sure our Devs will assist where they can as I’m sure you would the same. I’d like to further add, the same offer stands for any coin without any form of ‘pre-agreed collaboration’ effort :)

Thanks! i extend the invitation for our forums too.

I think maybe its worth talking with lizhi as he seems to be one of a very small list of core wallet developers we have.

I work as a developer so I agree there are other ways of working than just pull requests. But as you can see I’m not sure how feasible they are for us right now. Lizhi is pretty flat out making changes but he is one of only a few devs here that could actually commit to doing what you have suggested.

Everything else is just talk.

Yeah, i would like to talk to Lizhi to see what he thinks about this.

In WDC we are sick of talking so we changed our model and now we more or less behave like a business with deadlines , pressure, we talk on daily basis . We will se in some months the results

You can have a lot of experience developing software but it is different when you work with large programs, very different dynamic and a new set of problems arises; probably i misunderstood the comment, point taken anyway, i withdraw my previous comment :)

I see that we have different developing models, so i agree it couldn’t work the way i projected it. We shouldn’t close the door for future cooperation though, even in the marketing area we can make some joint campaigns. I will hang around if any one has questions or interest in future cooperation

Thanks !