Bitcoin is Dead?
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[quote name=“Bushstar” post=“14791” timestamp=“1371219329”]
For our grass roots community we would want to stay away from dedicated mining hardware and stay in the remit of GPU miners. This would probably take the form of a move to Scrpyt-Jane. At that point Bitcoin and Litecoin could rule SHA-256 and Scrypt respectively while we could rule Scrypt-Jane. This is something to consider in the future but it would be wise to consider all our options as soon as possible. We want to be prepared for the future :)
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[quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“25265” timestamp=“1376246572”]
[quote author=Bushstar link=topic=1839.msg14791#msg14791 date=1371219329]
For our grass roots community we would want to stay away from dedicated mining hardware and stay in the remit of GPU miners. This would probably take the form of a move to Scrpyt-Jane. At that point Bitcoin and Litecoin could rule SHA-256 and Scrypt respectively while we could rule Scrypt-Jane. This is something to consider in the future but it would be wise to consider all our options as soon as possible. We want to be prepared for the future :)
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[/quote]It’s always so disappointing when people throw this around as a solution. Scrypt-Jane is a hashing library which supports a wide configuration of hashing and mixing functions, including Scrypt. It’s not a hashing specification, and it doesn’t inform what the actual change would be. Are you talking about modifying the N-Factor to make it not feasible for GPU’s to mine, causing a hard fork and leaving all the GPU miners out in the cold? What specifically will that accomplish? Is this another “I don’t know how to fix the protocol so instead we’ll hobble people’s ability to mine effectively?” solution?
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“25264” timestamp=“1376246007”]
[quote author=nerdcustoms link=topic=3306.msg25253#msg25253 date=1376239035]
[quote author=zythen link=topic=3306.msg25252#msg25252 date=1376238845]
Problem is this IS with ASICs and at the current price rate. If it has no value for miners, I think we could see the price dropping significantly in the next year or less. It may mean additional spikes in value in coin such as FTC.
[/quote]If the price drops to a point where it’s not profitable for even asic miners, you will see people turning of rigs, which in turn will decrease the difficulty until the point it’s profitable to mine again. I understand your concerns, I just don’t personally think it’s going to be an issue.
[/quote]This is what makes Bitcoin a self sustaining technology and ensures it’s long term viability. Any claims that it’s dying because difficulty is increasing doesn’t take into account the economic forces that determine pricing…
[/quote]Even when there’s absolutely no incentive to mine?
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[quote name=“zythen” post=“25288” timestamp=“1376271820”]
[quote author=Kevlar link=topic=3306.msg25264#msg25264 date=1376246007]
[quote author=nerdcustoms link=topic=3306.msg25253#msg25253 date=1376239035]
[quote author=zythen link=topic=3306.msg25252#msg25252 date=1376238845]
Problem is this IS with ASICs and at the current price rate. If it has no value for miners, I think we could see the price dropping significantly in the next year or less. It may mean additional spikes in value in coin such as FTC.
[/quote]If the price drops to a point where it’s not profitable for even asic miners, you will see people turning of rigs, which in turn will decrease the difficulty until the point it’s profitable to mine again. I understand your concerns, I just don’t personally think it’s going to be an issue.
[/quote]This is what makes Bitcoin a self sustaining technology and ensures it’s long term viability. Any claims that it’s dying because difficulty is increasing doesn’t take into account the economic forces that determine pricing…
[/quote]Even when there’s absolutely no incentive to mine?
[/quote]There’s ALWAYS an incentive to mine: Block reward, transaction fees, transaction confirmations. So long as any of those are in demand, people will mine.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“25289” timestamp=“1376272394”]
There’s ALWAYS an incentive to mine: Block reward, transaction fees, transaction confirmations. So long as any of those are in demand, people will mine.
[/quote]
Will they though? There has to be a cut off where folk dump mining BTC when the returns are too difficult to achieve or too low to make it worthwhile.With 2 terrahash machine rumours circulating before the big ASIC really start to be sent out… will we see 4 or 6 Terrahash machines promoted before the year is done?
Difficult rates are going to carry on increasing exponentially and the fresh currency will be in the hands of the few. This mirrors fiat as it is now imho.
Also with less coinage in the hands of the masses, less will be spent with retailers accepting BTC. This will pull down the value of BTC imho.
Is it dead? I doubt it, but it is no longer living up to the ideals it was created for the most part.
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While I certainly don’t think Bitcoin is dead, I see FTC hitting $1 well before BTC approaches $1000.
If FTC adopts Zerocoin, then I think $1 will just be a short pit stop on the rocket ship to the moon.
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I’ll play the speculation game. So what happens to btc difficulty if say 10% of it’s hashrate drops? How long is it stuck in that difficulty trap?
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BTC will never hit $1k :P The only trend I really see (and perfectly willing to be proven wrong), is that BTC has plateaued in price for now but my thoughts and concerns are that it’ll see another significant drop in the coming 6-8 months by $25-50. That’s my speculative summary anyway. :P
@Kevlar - People won’t want to mine if it costs them more in overhead than they are receiving in return. Even when they already own the equipment. Just saying.
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[quote name=“ftcguy” post=“25328” timestamp=“1376317835”]
While I certainly don’t think Bitcoin is dead, I see FTC hitting $1 well before BTC approaches $1000.If FTC adopts Zerocoin, then I think $1 will just be a short pit stop on the rocket ship to the moon.
[/quote]Good point, what happened to the thoughts about adopting zerocoin??
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[quote name=“Markus11” post=“25399” timestamp=“1376342103”]
[quote author=ftcguy link=topic=3306.msg25328#msg25328 date=1376317835]
While I certainly don’t think Bitcoin is dead, I see FTC hitting $1 well before BTC approaches $1000.If FTC adopts Zerocoin, then I think $1 will just be a short pit stop on the rocket ship to the moon.
[/quote]Good point, what happened to the thoughts about adopting zerocoin??
[/quote]I believe the overwhelming consensus was “YES, please add Zerocoin!” and the devs are indeed looking into it with the hopes of integrating it into Feathercoin in the future.
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[quote name=“ftcguy” post=“25434” timestamp=“1376390510”]
[quote author=Markus11 link=topic=3306.msg25399#msg25399 date=1376342103]
[quote author=ftcguy link=topic=3306.msg25328#msg25328 date=1376317835]
While I certainly don’t think Bitcoin is dead, I see FTC hitting $1 well before BTC approaches $1000.If FTC adopts Zerocoin, then I think $1 will just be a short pit stop on the rocket ship to the moon.
[/quote]Good point, what happened to the thoughts about adopting zerocoin??
[/quote]I believe the overwhelming consensus was “YES, please add Zerocoin!” and the devs are indeed looking into it with the hopes of integrating it into Feathercoin in the future.
[/quote]Even though we want zerocoin we also want Security first. Zerocoin addition will mean nothing without protection methods. it will just make us more of a target.
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[quote name=“zythen” post=“25387” timestamp=“1376339375”]
BTC will never hit $1k :P The only trend I really see (and perfectly willing to be proven wrong), is that BTC has plateaued in price for now but my thoughts and concerns are that it’ll see another significant drop in the coming 6-8 months by $25-50. That’s my speculative summary anyway. :P@Kevlar - People won’t want to mine if it costs them more in overhead than they are receiving in return. Even when they already own the equipment. Just saying.
[/quote]But they do now, and have in the past, knowing that the price of their coins will go up. And it has.
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Bitcoin’s not dead, but every cryptocurrency has a rough road ahead of it:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1kagoo/congress_starts_investigating_bitcoin/
I mean, bring it on, let’s roll, don’t taze me bro, etc. etc, but still.
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To clarify - and perhaps the topic could have been better worded - I don’t mean it’s CURRENTLY dead. It’s more a question of it getting there and when.
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[quote name=“Kevlar” post=“25513” timestamp=“1376422012”]
[quote author=zythen link=topic=3306.msg25387#msg25387 date=1376339375]
BTC will never hit $1k :P The only trend I really see (and perfectly willing to be proven wrong), is that BTC has plateaued in price for now but my thoughts and concerns are that it’ll see another significant drop in the coming 6-8 months by $25-50. That’s my speculative summary anyway. :P@Kevlar - People won’t want to mine if it costs them more in overhead than they are receiving in return. Even when they already own the equipment. Just saying.
[/quote]But they do now, and have in the past, knowing that the price of their coins will go up. And it has.
[/quote]It went up and then severely retracted. It’s been stable lately but has been known to be volatile. What does BitCoin have at this point that really warrants a gain? There’s already an argument that BitCoin is mainly controlled and held by the few. Once they decide it isn’t as profitable any longer will we then see $5 BTC again as they unload? Unless the Devs decide to hardfork or make some other change, what’s to keep the difficulty from becoming suddenly insanely too high when more ASICs are fired up all at once?
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Actually another point would be that there’s no banking infrastructure in this arena, that both pays interest on your deposits AND insures them.
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[url=http://rt.com/news/bitcoin-germany-recognize-currency-641/]Germany recognizes Bitcoin as ‘private money’[/url]
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Interesting, thanks
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A few things. If it has no value for miners wouldn’t that increase the scarcity of BTC, increasing the value and making it profitable to mine again? Also BTC is merge mined with several other SHA-256 coins. IXcoin and Devcoin may not be worth much but Namecoin is another story (and one could easily speculate about NMC and DVC soaring in value given they are among the few coins actually in use for real things other than just day trading). As long as it is profitable to mine any of these coins, BTC will still be mined too, I would think. BTC could go up in value by several orders of magnitude. BTC could also fall out of favor and something else take its place.
Any one of these scenarios works in Feathercoin’s favor, I think.
